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Why Canada is a great country
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metalhead



Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plain Meaning wrote:
aq8knyus wrote:
Plain Meaning wrote:

So is this about the fact that Canada and New Zealand are marginally more redistributionist, or simply more economically 'fair' than the U.S. or Australia? Also because Canada and New Zealand would beat Australia and U.S. out in a global popularity contest?


Pretty much.

I would say though that international standing is very important and not simply a 'popularity' contest. I would also say that the progressive values of CA & NZ are continually far ahead of those of the US & Oz.

I am supportive of and thankful for everything the US and Oz does to maintain the benefits of western global hegemony. However, Canada and New Zealand have come closest to making peace with its past and are model societies for the world to follow.


Leaving aside the U.S. for a minute, which has particular differences (it rebelled from UK rule, it is a huge, aggressive Empire), I am still puzzled with distinguishing Australia from Canada and New Zealand. Is this because Australia is simply so damned racist sometimes?


How about because the Brits successfully committed genocide in Australia, does that help? And while we're on the topic, let's not forget how the Brits inspired the Nazis with their concentration camps in South Africa.
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Plain Meaning



Joined: 18 Oct 2014

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalhead wrote:
Plain Meaning wrote:
aq8knyus wrote:
Plain Meaning wrote:

So is this about the fact that Canada and New Zealand are marginally more redistributionist, or simply more economically 'fair' than the U.S. or Australia? Also because Canada and New Zealand would beat Australia and U.S. out in a global popularity contest?


Pretty much.

I would say though that international standing is very important and not simply a 'popularity' contest. I would also say that the progressive values of CA & NZ are continually far ahead of those of the US & Oz.

I am supportive of and thankful for everything the US and Oz does to maintain the benefits of western global hegemony. However, Canada and New Zealand have come closest to making peace with its past and are model societies for the world to follow.


Leaving aside the U.S. for a minute, which has particular differences (it rebelled from UK rule, it is a huge, aggressive Empire), I am still puzzled with distinguishing Australia from Canada and New Zealand. Is this because Australia is simply so damned racist sometimes?


How about because the Brits successfully committed genocide in Australia, does that help? And while we're on the topic, let's not forget how the Brits inspired the Nazis with their concentration camps in South Africa.


Here we go. Some actual historical examples and reasoning.

Because I don't know enough about Australia, but it seems odd that Brits would look down on them and favorably on Canada. I mean, Australia is fairly laissez-faire, but so is Canada, and neither are as hardcore pro-business as the United States.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EastisEast wrote:
Should we list all the demonic, sick, dumbfoundedly stupid things the US did...all this in the face of overwelming moral world opposition?

Like a sick man, continually harassing people on a bus?

Like a child with a bazooka? Like a fat boy with no money in a cake shop?

But to be fair again, you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. You can't have EMPIRE without a little extermination, slavery and mass death. All empires have that on them.

What an obnoxious dumbass you are. Most people in the world have a positive impression of the United States and like the U.S. (That is not true, however in the most conservative areas of the Middle East where many hardcore Islanists/anti-semites live.) Despite what you've been told in Canada, that's a true fact; look it up.

People/countries engage with/trade with the American "empire" because they want to, not because they have to (the rare exception being dictators committing human rights abuses). Globalization has lifted billions out of poverty. (And the U.S. has done much to reduce modern day slavery around the world.) Blaming all of the world's problems on the United States and Israel is a really ignorant position to take (but one that many do sadly).
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plain Meaning wrote:
neither are as hardcore pro-business as the United States.

This is another myth. Corporate tax rates are high in the U.S. Big businesses don't run everything; for example, in American cities the air is very clean (whereas in much of Asian (including Korea) it is not). That's due to environmental regulations. Median household incomes for whites and Asians are very, very high. Immigrants are desperate to get into the U.S. because it's a good place to live and work.
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Plain Meaning



Joined: 18 Oct 2014

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
Plain Meaning wrote:
neither are as hardcore pro-business as the United States.


This is another myth. Corporate tax rates are high in the U.S.


Corporate tax rates are low in the United States.

Quote:
Said Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) in a statement “I want America to be number one in many things, but having the highest corporate tax rate is definitely not one of them.”

This is constant refrain from Republicans, who then blame the supposedly high U.S. corporate tax rate for discouraging job creation. But as we’ve noted time and time again, while the U.S. has a high statutory corporate tax rate (meaning the rate on paper), U.S. corporations actually pay incredibly low taxes due to the ever-proliferating loopholes, credits, and deductions in the tax code and the use of overseas tax havens.

U.S. corporate taxes that were actually paid (the effective rate) fell to a 40 year low of 12.1 percent in fiscal year 2011, despite corporate profits rebounding to their pre-Great Recession heights. The U.S. both taxes its corporations less and raises less in revenue from corporate taxes than its foreign competitors.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. On paper it's really high, but because there are so many loopholes, it's really not (overall). But not really low either.

In the graphs of that article, one measure shows 2.1% for the U.S. vs. 2.5% for Canada, while the other is 13.4% vs. 14.5%. Not vastly different, in fact, pretty close. The difference is the U.S. economy is about ten times as big so they are getting way more corporate tax money.

Canada's probably not a bad place to live, but neither is the U.S., so (some) Canadians should stop claiming that it is.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Currently, US companies are supposed to pay tax to the US government on their global profits, but they don't owe the tax until they bring the money home. So many companies leave their profits abroad indefinitely. Obama wants to impose an immediate tax on US companies' global profits at a reduced rate of 19 per cent; it's aimed directly at US companies that stuff their profits in places like Bermuda. He would use the proceeds, along with other corporate tax base broadeners, to cut the rate on the corporate tax from 35 per cent to 28 per cent, and to 25 per cent for manufacturers.

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/12/385471616/obamas-plan-to-tax-overseas-earnings-draws-scrutiny
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aq8knyus



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plain Meaning wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Plain Meaning wrote:
aq8knyus wrote:
Plain Meaning wrote:

So is this about the fact that Canada and New Zealand are marginally more redistributionist, or simply more economically 'fair' than the U.S. or Australia? Also because Canada and New Zealand would beat Australia and U.S. out in a global popularity contest?


Pretty much.

I would say though that international standing is very important and not simply a 'popularity' contest. I would also say that the progressive values of CA & NZ are continually far ahead of those of the US & Oz.

I am supportive of and thankful for everything the US and Oz does to maintain the benefits of western global hegemony. However, Canada and New Zealand have come closest to making peace with its past and are model societies for the world to follow.


Leaving aside the U.S. for a minute, which has particular differences (it rebelled from UK rule, it is a huge, aggressive Empire), I am still puzzled with distinguishing Australia from Canada and New Zealand. Is this because Australia is simply so damned racist sometimes?


How about because the Brits successfully committed genocide in Australia, does that help? And while we're on the topic, let's not forget how the Brits inspired the Nazis with their concentration camps in South Africa.


Here we go. Some actual historical examples and reasoning.

Because I don't know enough about Australia, but it seems odd that Brits would look down on them and favorably on Canada. I mean, Australia is fairly laissez-faire, but so is Canada, and neither are as hardcore pro-business as the United States.


It is not about looking down on anyone.

It simply that New Zealand and Canada have populations that champion more progressive social and economic attitudes. It is hard to translate this across national boundaries as a British Tory would probably be left of a US democrat, but it is about the culture of the people.

The Canadian and Kiwi cultures put more emphasis on welfare and public ownership of healthcare and other services. They also have a stronger committment to social, gender and racial equality. Whilst this varies in every country from PM to PM, the Canadians and Kiwis have continually been far ahead of the curve for over a century.

All of the countries mentioned have similar histories, but there are enough differences to see a contrast and those differences matter. All may have mistreated and abused their native populations, but whether it be native title or inclusion in the constitution, Canada and New Zealand have been light years ahead of Australia.

The US has also been quite good, but unfortunately it has to dirty its hands as Britain once did to maintain the empire.
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aq8knyus



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalhead wrote:
How about because the Brits successfully committed genocide in Australia, does that help? And while we're on the topic, let's not forget how the Brits inspired the Nazis with their concentration camps in South Africa.


Are you a holocaust denier?

The Nazis didn't operate concentration camps. They operated death and slave camps. Please do not confuse the two as it makes you look like a Nazi apologist.

Also the US has us beat in regards to concentration camps with their catastrophic colonial war in the Philippines.

Also the Black wars were indeed a genocide and by the early 1830s it developed into full on ethnic cleansing. Time and time again settler interests were put ahead of basic humanity in the settler states.

For that Britain bears responsibility. The only time when Britain tried to put native peoples ahead of settlers was when they were trying to use it as a weapon. If the British victory in the war of 1812 could have been more emphatic they migh have been able to create an Indian state around the Great Lakes. It migh have only been a stratagem to hem in the power of a rising giant, but it still would have been a decent form of compensation.
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metalhead



Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aq8knyus wrote:
metalhead wrote:
How about because the Brits successfully committed genocide in Australia, does that help? And while we're on the topic, let's not forget how the Brits inspired the Nazis with their concentration camps in South Africa.


Are you a holocaust denier?


So by correctly calling them concentration camps, I am thought to be a holocaust denier? That's not how it works in the real world, Internet Man.
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aq8knyus



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalhead wrote:
aq8knyus wrote:
metalhead wrote:
How about because the Brits successfully committed genocide in Australia, does that help? And while we're on the topic, let's not forget how the Brits inspired the Nazis with their concentration camps in South Africa.


Are you a holocaust denier?


So by correctly calling them concentration camps, I am thought to be a holocaust denier? That's not how it works in the real world, Internet Man.


Are you a holocaust denier?

The Nazis didn't operate concentration camps. They operated death and slave camps. Please do not confuse the two as it makes you look like a Nazi apologist.
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aq8knyus



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalhead wrote:
aq8knyus wrote:
metalhead wrote:
How about because the Brits successfully committed genocide in Australia, does that help? And while we're on the topic, let's not forget how the Brits inspired the Nazis with their concentration camps in South Africa.


Are you a holocaust denier?


So by correctly calling them concentration camps, I am thought to be a holocaust denier? That's not how it works in the real world, Internet Man.


The concentration camps used during the Boer War were not the same in any way to the death and slave camps of the Nazis.

By suggesting a link you are undermining the singular horror of the holocaust and making a false equivalence, it is tactic of holocaust deniers.
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metalhead



Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only suggestion I am seeing here is your suggestion that the Boer War concentration camps were like a walk in the park. If anyone is denying anything here, it appears to be you.
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EastisEast



Joined: 29 May 2014
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Canadians like yourself are also supremely obnoxious when you go on about it in this way (i.e. as pissing contest rather than substantive criticism or through sincere policy discussion).


Yep.

I really am just poking at World Traveler to get him antsy.

Just using nonsensical (but provoking words/phrases) I do admit. A little trolling is fun sometimes, but I will stop.

My fun apologies Very Happy

An aside: They used to say 'Of all the Russias' because it was so different in each part of the country. The same can be said of America, and that is a big strength that Canada does not have in the least.
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aq8knyus



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalhead wrote:
The only suggestion I am seeing here is your suggestion that the Boer War concentration camps were like a walk in the park. If anyone is denying anything here, it appears to be you.


My suggestion or your invention?

I said the camps in SA were not like Nazi extermination and slave camps.

Only a rabid Anglophobe would think any differently.
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