Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Who's Your Daddy?]

Free flow of people between EU countries, and the Euro, both look like mistakes to me.

What do you think?

[Coltronator]

It is a halfway system. If they came together stronger then it would work, if they loosened the framework it will work(this is where it is headed right now)

Currently it is strong enough to make people nervous about sovereignty but not strong enough to provide a large number of members any tangible benefits to allay fears.

[Fallacy]

A classic theory vs. practice scenario. A decent idea diluted in application. The unified currency and transportation are both helpful to the free flow of people, but the diversified languages and traditions are not. What can be easily standardized has been for the most part, and what cannot has been left alone. Unfortunately, neighbors can be uncivil and impolite everywhere in the world, and the EU is no exception. The effectiveness of liberal socialism is limited by the goodwill of citizens. Once their tolerance and acceptance goes, so goes the policies, and support for the free flow of people can be discarded.

[radcon]

The EU, Euro, mass immigration from 3rd world hell holes- all of these were the idea of the Euro-elites. The man on the street never wanted any of this.

[Fallacy]

[Fallacy]

A short list of political parties promoting ultranationalist or even ethnic/purity and Euro-skeptic agendas in the EU for consideration: Danish People's Party; Popular Association - Golden Dawn (Greece); Front National (France); Freedom Party of Austria; Jobbik, or Movement for a better Hungary; Finns Party (Finland); Progress Party (Norway); Sweden Democrats; and Attack (Bulgaria). The last one is aptly named.

[Coltronator]

Conversely the opposite and true socialism and farther left social-demo parties are also gaining sway. What is not growing is the middle ground.

[Neil]

I think nation states only work within small areas with large areas they have problems such as the USSR breaking up as soon as non Russians had a chance to escape Moscow's rule and China's insecure hold over some of it's minority interests. The only success has been the USA and they started late from a blank slate and even then it could be argued their divisions such as north/south, rural/urban, black/white are more pronounced due to the countries vast size.

The EU was an okish idea as a trading bloc, albeit immoral as CAP screwed over a lot of 3rd world farmers but the instant open borders was on the table it became a doomed superstate akin to the USSR (and China will pop sooner or later).

[Coltronator]

I according to Neil, Canada and Australia don't exist. Possibly even Brazil too.

[Fallacy]

Population of Canada = 35 million. Population of Australia = 23 million. Those are not countries. Population of California = 38 million. Population of Texas = 27 million. Those are states, not even countries. Population of Brazil = 200 million. Now THAT is a country.

[Coltronator]

Ahhhh the Douchebag theory of a country.

[Fallacy]

A joke, sure, but think about it. Scale. Power in numbers. Is this not how countries were viewed prior to European Union? Smaller is weaker? Bigger is better? The more the merrier? Together we stand, divided we fall? Population of the EU = 503 million. As Donald Trump would pronounce it: huge. Population of Greece = 11 million. Wimpy. It seems like infatuation with size may have lead the EU into their current problems. Is not a continuing fascination with size and growth also leading the EU toward acceptance of migrants?

[Plain Meaning]

Euro - a bad mistake

EU - still working out the kinks

[Fallacy]

6 nations have exited the Schengen Agreement in the past few days. 20 more to go.

[chellovek]

Well it was product of its time, a way to aid post-war reconstruction (a supra-national plan being one of the conditions of the Marshall Plan), Cold War politics, general revulsion at what had just gone on, a way for Germany to be economically rehabilitated whilst soothing French fears etc.

There's not been a major all-out war in Europe for 70 years.
In the historical sweep of things, life in the EEC/EU has been pretty good. That sheltered and intellectually mediocre people now pontificate on ESL forums about how this has all been a mistake, somewhat ironically, proves how successful it has been.