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Blanca
Joined: 19 Apr 2012
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 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:42 am Post subject: NHIC and National Pension - one without the other? |
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Hi everyone,
The missus and I are (we hope) about to be offered a position and have the intention of taking it. However, it seems there's an option about signing up for pension. As a Brit, I could do with opting out, but as an American, she needs to take it.
My question is, is it possible to have NHIC without signing up to pension payments? I'm sure I read somewhere you couldn't have one without the other but need to be sure before we start deciding on things. It seems other teachers have opted out of pension but opted in to NHIC (although I need to speak to them first). Is this technically possible? |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:35 am Post subject: Re: NHIC and National Pension - one without the other? |
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| Blanca wrote: |
Hi everyone,
The missus and I are (we hope) about to be offered a position and have the intention of taking it. However, it seems there's an option about signing up for pension. As a Brit, I could do with opting out, but as an American, she needs to take it.
My question is, is it possible to have NHIC without signing up to pension payments? I'm sure I read somewhere you couldn't have one without the other but need to be sure before we start deciding on things. It seems other teachers have opted out of pension but opted in to NHIC (although I need to speak to them first). Is this technically possible? |
It's possible, but sometimes the health insurance office (which also collects the money for pension too) crosscheck and catch the business/person dodging the tax, leading to fines and eventual payment anyways.
But, any spouse can be automatically covered by a health insurance anyways. You need to go to the nearest office and add your spouse on (it's free too).
So just have the American register for health/pension, and the Brit register for nothing, but be a family "add-on" to your policy. |
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Blanca
Joined: 19 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the info Wildbore, good to know. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: NHIC and National Pension - one without the other? |
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| Wildbore wrote: |
But, any spouse can be automatically covered by a health insurance anyways. You need to go to the nearest office and add your spouse on (it's free too).
So just have the American register for health/pension, and the Brit register for nothing, but be a family "add-on" to your policy. |
I am pretty sure if the wife is also employed she will have to pay her own health insurance, she can be attached to her husbands policy.
Couple of points is for most people on an E2. One pension is mandatory by law. So opting out is not a real option. Like Wildbore mentions is that sometimes people are able to skirt paying cause the departments do not communicate with each other or people register for one and not the other. Then comes the problems if you are caught out you will have to pay back all pension payments due. This could get very troublesome if you plan to stay in Korea for a good period of time.
What I think happens how some people avoid paying pension is they are designated as a "independent contractor". Unless you understand this you will want to avoid it. For example - If you are an IC then paying pension and health insurance are your full responsibility. So people get registered for health insurance and pay themselves when the bill comes. They then do not register for pension. As to if it works well, I am uncertain. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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You say missus. Are you married? If yes, then your wife should start getting her American passport. Cause I am certain that if she has citizenship or maybe US residency she can apply for the pension refund. I have heard of a few people who are registered her one country but because the have a second citizenship that allows the refund they apply with the passport.
As to if that will work and exact details. Well I am too lazy to do the work for you. Consider checking out the National Pension Website and do some reading. |
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Blanca
Joined: 19 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice guys.
Just to clarify, we are not married, but we are in fact applying for a couples position. One of the teachers we talked to said he had opted out of NHIC for the benefit of his wife who wasn't employed at the school. As a Saffa he wasn't obliged to pay pension either so fair enough.
I'm essentially making sure the school is doing things legitimately - it seems my previous employer wasn't paying into NHIC despite promising to (I had no book and wasn't paying pension so...yeah...) so I'm treading more carefully now. |
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Blanca
Joined: 19 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Ok so here's another question. In my second year I worked for a slightly shady boss who allowed me not to pay into my pension (we agreed on this). He also, I suspect, didn't pay me into NHIC (I never got the book). Now that I'm returning, if I sign up for the pension and NHIC like a good boy, will I find myself landing a big bill for back payments? Or should I just try and opt out of the pensions system altogether?
I'm British by the way, I'm guessing that'll make a difference. |
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beentheredonethat777
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: AsiaHaven
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| , will I find myself landing a big bill for back payments? Or should I just try and opt out of the pensions system altogether? |
Yes, as soon as you are registered for health/pension/taxes: ALL past due payments become due IMMEDIATELY.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be in the country without having health insurance.
Having said that, if you plan to be in Korea for a long time, then it's best to pay up and move forward. However, if it's just temporary,then you should find a school that registers teachers as Independent Contractors.
The choice is yours. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| beentheredonethat777 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| , will I find myself landing a big bill for back payments? Or should I just try and opt out of the pensions system altogether? |
Yes, as soon as you are registered for health/pension/taxes: ALL past due payments become due IMMEDIATELY.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be in the country without having health insurance.
Having said that, if you plan to be in Korea for a long time, then it's best to pay up and move forward. However, if it's just temporary,then you should find a school that registers teachers as Independent Contractors.
The choice is yours. |
Working for a school that registers you as an IC does NOT legally exempt you from paying into NHIC and National Pension. As an IC your school is exempt from paying and not required to enroll you. You, however, become legally required to enroll yourself and to make 100% of the payments.
The Scofflaw strategy of registering as an IC and not making your required payments may work for a while but eventually there is a good chance they will catch up to you. |
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Blanca
Joined: 19 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:10 am Post subject: |
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Well that sucks. What's your advice then guys? I'm planning to be in Korea for 2 years, and am finding schools that seem happy for me to pay NHIC and tax like a normal person, but not pay into the pension system, which suits me fine.
In my last job I had absolutely no idea about the differences in being an IC or a proper employee. All I saw was "awesome! No pension contribution means an extra 100,000 per month!" and signed up. My salary was 2.2 and 2,037,000 landed in my account on the 10th of every month without fail. If I was an IC, presumably I'll be out for 7 months' worth of tax, NHIC and pension from that period, so what - around 2 mil? I was told when I signed up that Brits didn't need to pay into the pension system anyway - is this not the case?
Thanks for the replies guys, been really helpful. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Everyone must pay into the pension. It's just some countries can cash it out and others can't. Your ex employer was suppose to be paying it along with you. Sadly as a Brit, you can't get it back. If you pay into it for 10 years you can collect money when you retire. They would deposit it into your British bank account when you're 65. I realize you said you might be here for 2 years only. |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| beentheredonethat777 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| , will I find myself landing a big bill for back payments? Or should I just try and opt out of the pensions system altogether? |
Yes, as soon as you are registered for health/pension/taxes: ALL past due payments become due IMMEDIATELY.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be in the country without having health insurance.
Having said that, if you plan to be in Korea for a long time, then it's best to pay up and move forward. However, if it's just temporary,then you should find a school that registers teachers as Independent Contractors.
The choice is yours. |
Working for a school that registers you as an IC does NOT legally exempt you from paying into NHIC and National Pension. As an IC your school is exempt from paying and not required to enroll you. You, however, become legally required to enroll yourself and to make 100% of the payments.
The Scofflaw strategy of registering as an IC and not making your required payments may work for a while but eventually there is a good chance they will catch up to you. |
Doesn't matter a whole lot if you are an IC or not.
If you read the National Health Act itself, it doesn't mention employee or IC, it simply mentions a cutoff of hours worked per month to be a workplace-based insured person. You work a certain amount of hours, they need to register you, you don't, while they don't have to. Then you are liable for all the payments yourself.
Most Hagwon workers, even those registered as ICs, still put in the hours required to be workplace-insured workers. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildbore wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| beentheredonethat777 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| , will I find myself landing a big bill for back payments? Or should I just try and opt out of the pensions system altogether? |
Yes, as soon as you are registered for health/pension/taxes: ALL past due payments become due IMMEDIATELY.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be in the country without having health insurance.
Having said that, if you plan to be in Korea for a long time, then it's best to pay up and move forward. However, if it's just temporary,then you should find a school that registers teachers as Independent Contractors.
The choice is yours. |
Working for a school that registers you as an IC does NOT legally exempt you from paying into NHIC and National Pension. As an IC your school is exempt from paying and not required to enroll you. You, however, become legally required to enroll yourself and to make 100% of the payments.
The Scofflaw strategy of registering as an IC and not making your required payments may work for a while but eventually there is a good chance they will catch up to you. |
Doesn't matter a whole lot if you are an IC or not.
If you read the National Health Act itself, it doesn't mention employee or IC, it simply mentions a cutoff of hours worked per month to be a workplace-based insured person. You work a certain amount of hours, they need to register you, you don't, while they don't have to. Then you are liable for all the payments yourself.
Most Hagwon workers, even those registered as ICs, still put in the hours required to be workplace-insured workers. |
There is an alternate way of registering for NHIC for those who are not employed or who work fewer than the required hours that you are referring to. That is what you have stumbled upon, the desire to make sure that those who are not employed, unemployed or underemployed still get signed up for health insurance. So, there is a category of health insurance available so those who do not work get registered without being a "workplace-based insured person." That is not the same as the issue of employee vs. IC.
If you work enough hours, you have to register for NHIC and Pension as a "workplace-based insured person." If your status is an employee, then it's your employer that has to register you. If you have the status that we call "Independent Contractor" which has a slightly different meaning in Korean, then you have to register yourself. This status is a tax status and not under the purview of the health or pension offices.
If you are registered as an employee at the tax office, your employer has to register you and remit the NHIC and Pension payments, with the employer and employee each resonsible for half.
If you are registered as an IC at the tax office, then you are responsible to register yourself and pay 100% of the payments to NHIC and Pension. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Blanca wrote: |
I was told when I signed up that Brits didn't need to pay into the pension system anyway - is this not the case?
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No it is not the case. You have to pay. If you are lucky you get the split the cost with emplyer. If unlucky you are an IC and you pay the full rate. Simply put your boss being cheap and cutting costs, has LIED to you. He is passing the buck and telling a fib to have you take the choice of being an IC.
now maybe you can avoid getting the pension for a time. If unlucky again you will be called out and have to pay back. Your boss will likely go "Oops I made a mistake. I was wrong. So sorry YOU HAVE TO PAY IT BACK." |
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