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cmxc
Joined: 19 May 2008
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 Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:12 am Post subject: Foreign coach to lead Korean soccer team |
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Does this just prove what I have always suspected?
If Koreans want to clean up their act and achieve significant results, they just need to put a non-Korean in charge.
Koreans themselves seem unable to overcome pervasive corruption, embezzlement, breach of trust, nepotism, prostitution, suicide, and neo-confucianism.
Foreign coach to lead national football team
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/sports/2014/08/600_162057.html |
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mr_thehorse
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:42 am Post subject: Re: Foreign coach to lead Korean soccer team |
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| cmxc wrote: |
Does this just prove what I have always suspected?
If Koreans want to clean up their act and achieve significant results, they just need to put a non-Korean in charge.
Koreans themselves seem unable to overcome pervasive corruption, embezzlement, breach of trust, nepotism, prostitution, suicide, and neo-confucianism.
Foreign coach to lead national football team
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/sports/2014/08/600_162057.html |
meh... |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:44 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure if the decision had anything to do with the state of Korean society. I imagine they just wanted to bring in someone who knows about football. Korea isn't the first nation to do this.
You can also be a corrupt and crime ridden society and win tournaments. Just look at Italy and Brazil. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Foreign coach to lead Korean soccer team |
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| cmxc wrote: |
| they just need to put a non-Korean in charge. |
Absolutely true.
Left to their own devices Koreans get sucked into their opressive social structures and backward ways.
It takes an objective outsider who is independent of this society to be able to put things in order and direct the energy of the people into the right way.
Similarly...If foreign teachers were given real authority in this country imagine the wonders they could perform with the educational system! |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Foreign coach to lead Korean soccer team |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| cmxc wrote: |
| they just need to put a non-Korean in charge. |
Absolutely true.
Left to their own devices Koreans get sucked into their opressive social structures and backward ways.
It takes an objective outsider who is independent of this society to be able to put things in order and direct the energy of the people into the right way. |
Cha Bum-Geun was very critical of the KFA, and Korean soccer in the 90's. Even said players were throwing games (proved right). And he was rewarded with a 5-year ban from all soccer related activities in Korea.
Anyways, as a Korean, you need to be really really strong to overcome the 'Korean way'. People have tried, but because of lack of influence, power, or whatever, have been slapped down.
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Similarly...If foreign teachers were given real authority in this country imagine the wonders they could perform with the educational system! |
Just wondering what kind of authority to have, that you would think that we'd work wonders in education? |
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mr_thehorse
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Foreign coach to lead Korean soccer team |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| cmxc wrote: |
| they just need to put a non-Korean in charge. |
Absolutely true.
Left to their own devices Koreans get sucked into their opressive social structures and backward ways.
It takes an objective outsider who is independent of this society to be able to put things in order and direct the energy of the people into the right way.
Similarly...If foreign teachers were given real authority in this country imagine the wonders they could perform with the educational system! |
+1. Korea should install Singapore's philosopher king as supreme leader. Imagine how clean this place would be with gum being banned and punishments for spitting by caning. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:22 am Post subject: |
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A foreign coach is no guarantees of success. Hiddink did well, but the other foreign coaches were meh. Same with England. Foreign coaches have not been able to bring success to English Football and overcome the entrenched mindsets therein.
In the end though, the current state of affairs rests squarely on the KFA who had a promising Korean coach in Hong Myung Bo but threw him into an untenable situation.
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| Similarly...If foreign teachers were given real authority in this country imagine the wonders they could perform with the educational system! |
That would be nice if foreign teachers agreed upon things, but they don't. Foreign teachers and their views are not some sort of monolithic entity. What makes good foreign teachers is fresh ideas, not the fact that they are foreign.
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| Left to their own devices Koreans get sucked into their opressive social structures and backward ways. |
I'd say that's true about any society that grows isolated. What made Europe great was the exchange of ideas between different countries, not any one country being left to its own devices. There's nothing uniquely Korean about that statement.
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| It takes an objective outsider who is independent of this society to be able to put things in order and direct the energy of the people into the right way |
So if USA/Australia/UK brings in a foreign coach to teach its Judo or Taekwondo team, does that mean that there is something inherently corrupt in its society? I mean, come on. Again and again, whenever something happens with Korea its always about 'Korean' culture. Why not the same questions whenever USA has a plane crash or changes coaches and brings in Klingsman? And lets remember, even when we question culture back home its "gun culture" or "sports culture" or "a culture of cronyism" its never American culture. Apparently Americans/Aussies/English have the freedom to make mistakes and do wrongs and not have it blamed on their culture, but Koreans do not.
| Quote: |
| If Koreans want to clean up their act and achieve significant results, they just need to put a non-Korean in charge. |
Yes, winning a bronze medal at the Olympics was not a significant result. Nor Olympic gold in baseball nor any other sporting gold they've achieved. Nor becoming world players in the automotive/semiconductor/steel/shipping/electronic/construction industries. Nope, its always some Wizard of Oz westerner behind the scenes. |
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mandrews1985
Joined: 12 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| I hope it's not Moyes! |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Foreign coach to lead Korean soccer team |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| as a Korean, you need to be really really strong to overcome the 'Korean way'. People have tried, but ... have been slapped down. |
Exactly. A Korean faces consequences- social ostracism and oblivion- if he dares to step out of the established social order. The Korean way-of management- in sport as well as the general workforce- is stale and oppressive, it makes this society miserable.
Ingenuity requires first that you are even able to think outside the box. Latest coach Hong obviously couldn't do it. he was only given the job because he scored a goal in 2002. In reality he was likely an aloof stone-faced authoritarian who regarded feedback as a threat to his authority. Lack of international or intercultural experience, a mindset from the 5th century.
Before Hiddinck, Korean players of different age groups would not even socialize with eachother, let alone pass the ball to eachother. Its a microcosm of Korean society.
After Hiddinck they quickly reverted back. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Foreign coach to lead Korean soccer team |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| as a Korean, you need to be really really strong to overcome the 'Korean way'. People have tried, but ... have been slapped down. |
Exactly. A Korean faces consequences- social ostracism and oblivion- if he dares to step out of the established social order. The Korean way-of management- in sport as well as the general workforce- is stale and oppressive, it makes this society miserable.
Ingenuity requires first that you are even able to think outside the box. Latest coach Hong obviously couldn't do it. he was only given the job because he scored a goal in 2002. In reality he was likely an aloof stone-faced authoritarian who regarded feedback as a threat to his authority. Lack of international or intercultural experience, a mindset from the 5th century.
Before Hiddinck, Korean players of different age groups would not even socialize with eachother, let alone pass the ball to eachother. Its a microcosm of Korean society.
After Hiddinck they quickly reverted back. |
Hong Myung Bo was given the job because he was simply the greatest Asian player of his time. He was named FIFA's greatest 125 player list. (Not one USA male is that list) In competitions somebody has to come last, that doesn't make him a bad coach, or that the team was bad.
Interesting thing is KFA's insistance that the new foreign coach be able speak English. Why bother to get a foreign coach if they want to go that way? They should get the best available disregarding colour, reliegion, sex, ...
Anyway, I'd go with Frank Rijkaard, not Sergio Farias. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Ingenuity requires first that you are even able to think outside the box. Latest coach Hong obviously couldn't do it. he was only given the job because he scored a goal in 2002. In reality he was likely an aloof stone-faced authoritarian who regarded feedback as a threat to his authority. Lack of international or intercultural experience, a mindset from the 5th century. |
You're arguments might be more credible if you actually knew what the hell you were talking about.
Dude was given the job because he won Korea the bronze medal at the London Olympics. Also dude played in Japan and MLS.
Frankly the only person failing to step out of their established order of things is you because you are spouting off the same old lines and are completely getting facts wrong. Seriously the level of errors you've just committed should be embarrassing and cause you to rethink your thought processes.
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| I hope it's not Moyes! |
No, it will be AVB. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Foreign coach to lead Korean soccer team |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Similarly...If foreign teachers were given real authority in this country imagine the wonders they could perform with the educational system! |
Just wondering what kind of authority to have, that you would think that we'd work wonders in education? |
If I had power the first thing i'd do is clean up the corruption and expel any teachers found guilty of sexually abusing students. |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Soccer. I mean seriously its Soccer.
No one cares. |
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Stu_miller
Joined: 23 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Do South Korea have a national American Football team?
If not, then it's football, not soccer. 
The nationality of a football manager normally doesn't matter; it's the respect that he garners and the quality of his methods that are important. However, it's obviously crucial that the manger is able to effectively communicate to the squad, otherwise what's the point? So, any foreign manager will need to have a good Korean coaching staff around him who can translate his ideas to the team.
I would imagine they will struggle to get someone close to Hiddink's ability this time. Presumably they splashed the cash for him before as it was their home tournament. I'd quite like them go in for Glenn Hoddle. He's good tactically and reads the game intelligently (was underrated as England manager imo) and his perceived lack of man-management skills won't matter nearly as much as he will be communicating through Koreans. Bit of a left-field choice but I don't think they can do much better at this time. |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Stu_miller wrote: |
| I'd quite like them go in for Glenn Hoddle. |
He is apparently in the running. |
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