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How important is a good refrence from a hagwon?
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greatunknown



Joined: 04 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:13 am    Post subject: How important is a good refrence from a hagwon? Reply with quote

Hagwon owners always seem to live up to their reputation. I have been working at what I considered to be a good hagwon for 2 full years without any of the normal hagwon problems. Going into my third contract my director has changed his tune and there has been problem after problem. My workload has increased and my overtime has been cut. He wont pay airfare allowances any more. He wont increase my pay (actually with no overtime or airfare allowance I am now making considerably less).

To make matters worse he refuses to even give a contract (I have an F6). The writing on the wall pretty clearly spells out that he plans to replace me with another teacher.

I also found out that he gave me a less than glowing reference when a school that I was interested in working for called. He also flipped out at me for looking for other jobs for blah blah blah reasons.

Basicly after nearly 3 years of hard work I am about to get canned without even the courtesy of a good reference.

I am kind of ranting right now. Sorry about that. I do need advice on what to tell recruiters or directors who ask for a reference. There are some head teachers and supervisors here who are willing to give a reference.

So any advice? Do references really make a difference?
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basic69isokay



Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Location: korea

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offense but, why are you working at a crapwon with an f-6?
Just quit and do private lessons. Flip him the bird on your way out.
Seems like he's already not giving u good refs anyway, right?
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greatunknown



Joined: 04 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats not a bad idea. Ive had the f6 for a very short time. I would like to transition myself into doing just that. But for now i still want the security of a regular paycheck
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:38 am    Post subject: Re: How important is a good refrence from a hagwon? Reply with quote

greatunknown wrote:
There are some head teachers and supervisors here who are willing to give a reference.


There you have it.
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greatunknown



Joined: 04 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: How important is a good refrence from a hagwon? Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:
greatunknown wrote:
There are some head teachers and supervisors here who are willing to give a reference.


There you have it.


Yeah its not all bad. The only reason I am worried is that I worked at this hagwon for nearly 3 years. A recruiter who I had exchanged a few emails with took it upon herself to call my director. I was not expecting this and apparently neither was he. He basicly slandered me to the recruiter and even asked her to find a replacement teacher. Then he called me into his office and became very angry/emotional.

Basicly I am in a situation now where we are playing a game of chicken. He wants me out and I want out. Its really just a question of who will it be convienient for first. I am sure that if he found another teacher tomorrow that would be it.

I really dont to leave on bad terms but what am I supposed to do? And how can I avoid having him slander me to any more potential employers...

So, this thread has gone beyond my original question about referenced and has become more about my overall situation in a nutshell. Not sure what kind of advice I am looking for at this point. Im venting I suppose.

Wish me luck!
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kingplaya4



Joined: 14 May 2006

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget about private lessons full time, you won't make enough. You won't get paid for any holidays, when families decide to go away for the summer/winter, and the killer about a month before each midterm and final test. Maybe you could get a part time job at another school and moonlight. Why do you need a recruiter? Just stop in at other hagwons in the city on your own and if you need to, have a Korean teacher you trust be the reference. If a job you likes contacts the owner, explain to them how you worked there three years, and he only became unhappy once you decided to leave.
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Re: How important is a good refrence from a hagwon? Reply with quote

great unknown wrote:
Not sure what kind of advice I am looking for at this point. Im venting I suppose.


These types are just pricks.

Different industry, but years ago I worked for a director who I really admired. Did great work him. But this *beep* just has it in for me for some unknown reason. Turns out the guy hated all his employees, which is weird because he really had the dream team. Anyhow we all ended up quitting eventually, and just used each other as references LOL.

Fast forward, one of these former coworkers told me the director got demoted. They knocked him down like 4 levels, back to grunt work. We all had a laugh about that.
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Chaparrastique



Joined: 01 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreatUnknown wrote:
Going into my third contract my director has changed his tune


Why? Did a recruiter tempt him with a 20 yr old female? often the case.

Greatunknown wrote:
and there has been problem after problem.


Usually the women directors are fair, in my exp.

Ajosshis though tend to view foreign guys as a threat and will try to replace them with compliant 20-something women.
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greatunknown



Joined: 04 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really is a crappy situation to be in. Even though I have a letter of reference from a supervisor who is also willing to speak on my behalf, I keep getting told that it would be better if potential employers could call my actual director.

3 years of hard work and I cant even get a good reference...

I am beyond frustrated with this crap situation.
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greatunknown



Joined: 04 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double post
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Chaparrastique



Joined: 01 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greatunknown wrote:
This is really is a crappy situation to be in. Even though I have a letter of reference from a supervisor who is also willing to speak on my behalf, I keep getting told that it would be better if potential employers could call my actual director.

3 years of hard work and I cant even get a good reference...

I am beyond frustrated with this crap situation.



That's Korea for you. A great workplace can turn sour in weeks by the arrival of a new boss. The high turnover of this transient society ensures nobody will vouch for you. Being a talented teacher will only earn jealousy and sabotage from K Co-teachers. Your best efforts will usually go unappreciated and your best ideas stolen. You can give years of your life to this country and within days it will be as if you never existed. its a sort of Darwinian nightmare.

Try contact previous supervisors/ co-workers via facebook. I've written several references for people in your situation. Less than half of new employerss bother to call phone references.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggest mistake? You used your employer as a reference. Tough to get around as a potential Korean employer will often call up your current or ex employer EVEN IF they are not listed in your formal list of references.

Still, the concept of trust here does not match up with notions back in the west. Your employer found out you're looking for another job, and that, in their eyes, means you're dog meat. This is why job searches here are done VERY quietly, and when leaving, people often lie about the reason for departure. The water is further muddied here by cross cultural differences and the fact that, in many cases, the employer owns the visa.

In your case? You have an F6. You can skate. Drop the place from your resume' if they're giving you a crap verbal reference, and then add them back to the list later.
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greatunknown



Joined: 04 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PRagic wrote:
Biggest mistake? You used your employer as a reference. Tough to get around as a potential Korean employer will often call up your current or ex employer EVEN IF they are not listed in your formal list of references.

Still, the concept of trust here does not match up with notions back in the west. Your employer found out you're looking for another job, and that, in their eyes, means you're dog meat. This is why job searches here are done VERY quietly, and when leaving, people often lie about the reason for departure. The water is further muddied here by cross cultural differences and the fact that, in many cases, the employer owns the visa.

In your case? You have an F6. You can skate. Drop the place from your resume' if they're giving you a crap verbal reference, and then add them back to the list later.


I didnt. I put the name of the institution on my resume and wrote "references available if needed". I really would like my resume to reflect my experience.... a 3 year gap certainly wouldnt help me. My supervisor who I trust to give a good reference is who I was planning to use.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Chaparrastique



Joined: 01 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PRagic wrote:
Yup, damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Korea is probably the only country that tends to fire good teachers while actively seeking out inept ones.

My advice to you is get out of here while you can. Go to somewhere that uses common sense and actually rewards the skilled (instead of viewing them as a threat to be destroyed).
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