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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: US normalizing relations with Cuba? |
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| If true it is long overdue. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Definitely. Our whole foreign policy towards Cuba is based on anger and embarrassment over the Bay of Pigs invasion not working and currently on the Cuban American vote in Florida. Nothng pragmatic about it. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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How can the US possibly be friends with such a repressive state?
By doing so they're condoning their human rights violations and betraying their own values- .and the people that have suffered in cuba.
Obama has gone too far with the whole cosying up to rogue states. Iran is another example. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
How can the US possibly be friends with such a repressive state?
By doing so they're condoning their human rights violations and betraying their own values- .and the people that have suffered in cuba.
Obama has gone too far with the whole cosying up to rogue states. Iran is another example. |
Are you being serious or sarcastic? |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
| Are you being serious or sarcastic? |
You can't be totally unaware of cubas reputation surely?
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Angry debates erupt in Miami
In Miami, where the vast majority of the large population of Cuban exiles once fiercely opposed any change in the U.S. stance toward the island, reactions were split, mostly along generational lines.
A rift over the embargo that political analysts have noted within the Cuban-American community was on full display.
Angry debates erupted in the city's Little Havana neighborhood between groups of younger demonstrators who said they supported Obama's decision to exchange the prisoners and thaw diplomatic relations and older protesters who said they were opposed to the move.
Outside the iconic Versailles Cafe, demonstrators shouted: "Obama a coward! Coward, coward, coward!" One held a sign that read: "Obama administration conspiracy with Castro terrorist."
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/17/politics/cuba-policy-change-reaction/ |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
How can the US possibly be friends with such a repressive state?
By doing so they're condoning their human rights violations and betraying their own values- .and the people that have suffered in cuba.
Obama has gone too far with the whole cosying up to rogue states. Iran is another example. |
The US isn't being "friends" with Cuba, just getting the diplomatic relations back. Cuba isn't any worse than China, and this could actually help the citizens of Cuba live better lives. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
How can the US possibly be friends with such a repressive state?
By doing so they're condoning their human rights violations and betraying their own values- .and the people that have suffered in cuba.
Obama has gone too far with the whole cosying up to rogue states. Iran is another example. |
The US is "friends" with Russia, China, Vietnam, Myanmar and a couple dozen "banana republics" (look up the term to see where it comes from) to name but a few.
How is Cuba any different. I know that when I was in Cuba (about 20 times between 1985-2000) it wasn't.
I think more Americans should take a look at their neighbor and ignore the United Fruit Company (Chiquita Brands International now).
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
How can the US possibly be friends with such a repressive state?
By doing so they're condoning their human rights violations and betraying their own values- .and the people that have suffered in cuba.
Obama has gone too far with the whole cosying up to rogue states. Iran is another example. |
The US is "friends" with Russia, China, Vietnam, Myanmar and a couple dozen "banana republics" (look up the term to see where it comes from) to name but a few.
How is Cuba any different. I know that when I was in Cuba (about 20 times between 1985-2000) it wasn't.
I think more Americans should take a look at their neighbor and ignore the United Fruit Company (Chiquita Brands International now).
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^^true. Usuallly when you hear 'Don't normalize relations with Cuba' its almost always from someone with the fed viewpoint of over 50 years of US propaganda and not from any real analysis. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
| Usuallly when you hear 'Don't normalize relations with Cuba' its almost always from someone with the fed viewpoint of over 50 years of US propaganda and not from any real analysis. |
You deny Cubas ongoing human rights abuses that has forced 10% of people to flee the country?
You deny the forced labour camps and summary executions?
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Cuba is the only country in the Americas that consistently makes Freedom House’s list of the Worst of the Worst: the World’s Most Repressive Societies for widespread abuses of political rights and civil liberties."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:16 am Post subject: |
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You haven't addressed why it is ok for the US to have normal relations with China? A country with the highest number of political prisoners in the world.
Or how about your good friends Saudi Arabia?
Too much hypocrisy on this issue. |
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Deja
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Embargo on Cuba only hurts the common folk. Don't fall for political BS that says otherwise.
The bad regimes actually thrive during embargo times.
Having diplomatic relations with Cuba does not condone, help, approve (or whatever other "positive" word you wish to put instead) anything that goes on in Cuba.
50 years of unneeded oppression on the common folk. End it.. everywhere. Cuba is the least troublesome of all "problematic" countries in the world. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
| Usuallly when you hear 'Don't normalize relations with Cuba' its almost always from someone with the fed viewpoint of over 50 years of US propaganda and not from any real analysis. |
You deny Cubas ongoing human rights abuses that has forced 10% of people to flee the country?
You deny the forced labour camps and summary executions?
| Quote: |
Cuba is the only country in the Americas that consistently makes Freedom House’s list of the Worst of the Worst: the World’s Most Repressive Societies for widespread abuses of political rights and civil liberties."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba
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Not denying anytihng. If our political isolation was based on that you'd have a point. It isn't' We made them an enemy long before that. Its based TOTALLY on their choosing the USSR during the cold war and currently the electoral votes of Florida. rom the Cuban American voting boc We do business with regimes that do the same thing. So, lets not be hypocritical. Normalizing relations helps those political prisoners and the abuse. |
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W.T.Carl
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Sorry Bud, I wouldn't look for any Cuban cigars any time soon. There is the little matter of an EMBARGO enforced by statute law ( Simpson/Burton Act).
Then there is the control of both the House and Senate by the Republicans who are none to happy with Obama. Any funds for building an Embassy and staffing said Embassy have to be approved by both houses of Congress, which ain't gonna happen. Besides, what does Cuba have that we need? Sugar? We have price supports to keep OUR prices UP. Cigars? You KNOW they are no good for you! Classic Cars? Well, maybe. And as for political prisoners, Stalin MURDERED millions AFTER being recognized by the US. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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No one is saying that either. The interesting thing is one would have thought that it would be widely crticized but I've seen views in the media from both liberal and conservative saying its about time. Congress may dismiss it. Espeicially the new one that is much farther right but Obama will be viewed as making a brave and insightful decision. It helps his legacy which already has some major wins.
I wouldn't be surprised if Congress comes around. |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
I've seen views in the media from both liberal and conservative saying its about time. Congress may dismiss it. Espeicially the new one that is much farther right but Obama will be viewed as making a brave and insightful decision.
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6 megamedia companies control almost 90 percent of everything in America you see on tv, listen on the radio, read in a newspaper or magazne, provides your access to cable tv, etc. its not a surprise. For real news about America you need to go outside of America for any real insight. |
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