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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: Italian ferry catches on fire |
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Ten die, but 500 saved.
That's the kind of stuff Korea needs to benchmark.
Meanwhile, on the peninsula, three nuclear reactor "safety inspectors" die from inhaling nitrogen gas and the problem has yet to be identified. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Apples and oranges. The fact was that there was little that could be done except for staying on the boat (where have we heard this argument before?) and the fact that the vessel WASN'T CAPSIZING means the circumstances were drastically different.
Basically the ferry turned into a slowly drifting, smoldering life raft as it took hours for people to get off. If it had happened in Korea, you would have seen a similar death toll.
What makes ferry accidents similar or dissimilar and thus worthy of bench-marking is the circumstances of their crash, not the fact that they are both ferries.
Of course that would be obvious to anyone with basic critical thinking skills and a middle-school education, but this is Dave's... |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Apples and oranges. The fact was that there was little that could be done except for staying on the boat (where have we heard this argument before?) and the fact that the vessel WASN'T CAPSIZING means the circumstances were drastically different.
Basically the ferry turned into a slowly drifting, smoldering life raft as it took hours for people to get off. If it had happened in Korea, you would have seen a similar death toll.
What makes ferry accidents similar or dissimilar and thus worthy of bench-marking is the circumstances of their crash, not the fact that they are both ferries.
Of course that would be obvious to anyone with basic critical thinking skills and a middle-school education, but this is Dave's... |
That you go for the cliche, a hoary one at that, of criticizing someone's education shows how lazy your thinking skills are.
The comparison is to the rescue operations--one successful, the other not--not to the cause.
Got it, little buddy? Now go back to swabbing the decks and leave the thinking to those in charge. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Apples and oranges. The fact was that there was little that could be done except for staying on the boat (where have we heard this argument before?) and the fact that the vessel WASN'T CAPSIZING means the circumstances were drastically different.
Basically the ferry turned into a slowly drifting, smoldering life raft as it took hours for people to get off. If it had happened in Korea, you would have seen a similar death toll.
What makes ferry accidents similar or dissimilar and thus worthy of bench-marking is the circumstances of their crash, not the fact that they are both ferries.
Of course that would be obvious to anyone with basic critical thinking skills and a middle-school education, but this is Dave's... |
That you go for the cliche, a hoary one at that, of criticizing someone's education shows how lazy your thinking skills are.
The comparison is to the rescue operations--one successful, the other not--not to the cause.
Got it, little buddy? Now go back to swabbing the decks and leave the thinking to those in charge. |
A rescue operation is subject to the conditions of the wreck. One involved a ship that sank in about 2 hours. It's been over 36 hours and the Italian ferry is still drifting along the ocean.
Apples and oranges genius. Are you seriously unable to see how the circumstances make a massive difference in the death toll? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Apples and oranges. The fact was that there was little that could be done except for staying on the boat (where have we heard this argument before?) and the fact that the vessel WASN'T CAPSIZING means the circumstances were drastically different.
Basically the ferry turned into a slowly drifting, smoldering life raft as it took hours for people to get off. If it had happened in Korea, you would have seen a similar death toll.
What makes ferry accidents similar or dissimilar and thus worthy of bench-marking is the circumstances of their crash, not the fact that they are both ferries.
Of course that would be obvious to anyone with basic critical thinking skills and a middle-school education, but this is Dave's... |
That you go for the cliche, a hoary one at that, of criticizing someone's education shows how lazy your thinking skills are.
The comparison is to the rescue operations--one successful, the other not--not to the cause.
Got it, little buddy? Now go back to swabbing the decks and leave the thinking to those in charge. |
A rescue operation is subject to the conditions of the wreck. One involved a ship that sank in about 2 hours. It's been over 36 hours and the Italian ferry is still drifting along the ocean.
Apples and oranges genius. Are you seriously unable to see how the circumstances make a massive difference in the death toll? |
Once an apologist, always an apologist.
The circumstances that made the biggest difference were all correctable--the incompetent and cowardly captain and crew, the chaotic, rudderless rescue efforts and the government's refusal of assistance from other countries.
Don't cry on your timeline, little buddy. Cry for the dead who could have been saved. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Italian Ferry personnel were Italianized. Think_Ferrari Enzos.
Korean Ferry personnel were Koreanized. Think_KIA Mornings. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
The circumstances that made the biggest difference were all correctable--the incompetent and cowardly captain and crew, the chaotic, rudderless rescue efforts and the government's refusal of assistance from other countries.
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The circumstances that made the biggest difference were between the ship capsizing and sinking in under two hours (more like barely over an hour) vs. slowly burning for 36 hours and not sinking at all.
If the Korean ship had just burned but not sank, you'd have had the same kind of death toll ~10 dead, most rescued off the deck over 36 hours. Of course you would have called it Korean incompetency, but since its Italians involved, its held up as an example of brilliance.
If you can't grasp that, I don't know what to say. Seriously, how are you going to compare them when one ship didn't even sink. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
The circumstances that made the biggest difference were all correctable--the incompetent and cowardly captain and crew, the chaotic, rudderless rescue efforts and the government's refusal of assistance from other countries.
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The circumstances that made the biggest difference were between the ship capsizing and sinking in under two hours (more like barely over an hour) vs. slowly burning for 36 hours and not sinking at all.
If the Korean ship had just burned but not sank, you'd have had the same kind of death toll ~10 dead, most rescued off the deck over 36 hours. Of course you would have called it Korean incompetency, but since its Italians involved, its held up as an example of brilliance.
If you can't grasp that, I don't know what to say. Seriously, how are you going to compare them when one ship didn't even sink. |
You have no idea what would have happened if it had been a Korean ferry.
The people on-board might well have panicked. The crew, unprepared and untrained, might have panicked as well (after having a beer or two of course). That alone could have led to many deaths and injuries. Think of what happened when the line 2 subway train collided with the train in front of it. Nearly 100 people were hurt trying to evacuate the train.
Now put them in a much more dangerous situation and plenty could go wrong. And if you were in charge, you'd have everyone staying below decks, dying of smoke inhalation, while waiting for rescuers to arrive.
I never used the word brilliance. If you, as you claim, don't know what to say, don't pretend that I said it. Putting words in my mouth is weak, little buddy, as is your argument. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The people on-board might well have panicked. |
By all accounts there as a great deal of panic on the Italian ferry as well.
| Quote: |
| hink of what happened when the line 2 subway train collided with the train in front of it. Nearly 100 people were hurt trying to evacuate the train. |
The most serious of which was like, 1 person twisting their ankle. Most of those "injuries" were claimed by people looking for a settlement.
Anyways atwood, its ridiculous to play these kinds of hypotheticals. Lets stick to the facts and circumstances- One ship sank, the other did not, and that had far more to do with the death toll than any culture or nationality.
And didn't S. Korea have another ferry accident not too long ago where no one died
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/01/world/asia/no-casualties-after-south-korean-tourist-boat-runs-aground.html?_r=0
No one died in that accident, so by your logic that means the Italians are more incompetent. 0 Koreans dead here. 10 people dead there. No mass panic and injuries.
Or you can accept MY logic that the circumstances of each individual ship's accident determined the likelihood of casualties. [/quote] |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The people on-board might well have panicked. |
By all accounts there as a great deal of panic on the Italian ferry as well.
| Quote: |
| hink of what happened when the line 2 subway train collided with the train in front of it. Nearly 100 people were hurt trying to evacuate the train. |
The most serious of which was like, 1 person twisting their ankle. Most of those "injuries" were claimed by people looking for a settlement.
Anyways atwood, its ridiculous to play these kinds of hypotheticals. Lets stick to the facts and circumstances- One ship sank, the other did not, and that had far more to do with the death toll than any culture or nationality.
And didn't S. Korea have another ferry accident not too long ago where no one died
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/01/world/asia/no-casualties-after-south-korean-tourist-boat-runs-aground.html?_r=0
No one died in that accident, so by your logic that means the Italians are more incompetent. 0 Koreans dead here. 10 people dead there. No mass panic and injuries.
Or you can accept MY logic that the circumstances of each individual ship's accident determined the likelihood of casualties. |
[/quote]
Stick to the facts?!? Stick to the facts?!? Mr. Timeline says stick to the facts.
Why was the accident you reference news? Because it was so unusual that no one died in a Korean boat accident. As for the rescue efforts, it was right off the coast and easy to get to. But good for them for getting it right.
Yes, there was some panic onboard the Italian ferry. Going on past history, it well could have been mass hysteria if a Korean ferry caught on fire.
As for Koreans "looking for a settlement." that supports what I've been posting about blood money. It helps create a culture of corruption. (And of course your statement that they were looking for a statement is far from factual. Stick to the facts! Stick to the facts!) |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Nooooooooo!
By the gods, not this again. |
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