| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
|
 Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:53 pm Post subject: Promotion During Contract |
 |
|
| Let's say I my contract finishes in September and I get promoted this month. This promotion would cause me to have to sign a new contract. What would the ramifications be? The new contract would only last until September, unless I renewed. Would I be out severance on the new contract? Is it considered a new contract or just a new position? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Promotion During Contract |
|
|
| Porksta wrote: |
| I get promoted this month. |
Promoted??
from what...lowest foreign slave to senior exotic pet?
There is no "promotion" in ESL, foreigners must be kept in their place ie powerless.
If anything your experience just marks you out as a threat to the clueless bosses. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bongotruck
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Promotion During Contract |
|
|
The OP said he got promoted. Are you calling him a liar?
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Porksta wrote: |
| I get promoted this month. |
Promoted??
from what...lowest foreign slave to senior exotic pet?
There is no "promotion" in ESL, foreigners must be kept in their place ie powerless.
If anything your experience just marks you out as a threat to the clueless bosses. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm speaking in hypothetical. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Porksta wrote: |
| I'm speaking in hypothetical. |
If you are with the same employer then the only thing that changes is the office and the title (and hopefully the wages).
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Promoted??
from what...lowest foreign slave to senior exotic pet?
There is no "promotion" in ESL, foreigners must be kept in their place ie powerless.
If anything your experience just marks you out as a threat to the clueless bosses. |
Some of us might beg to differ.
If your only claim to fame is a non-related BA, a generic TEFL and couple years in a hagwon that might be true.
If you actually have (or work toward) some legitimate credentials there is upward mobility, promotion, advancement and options.
I haven't worked for as little 2.1M KRW for a long time (2002-pre world cup comes to mind).
I also have a decent office, generous bonuses, nice vacation time AND have managed to buy 5 hectares and build a house (cash) and I AM in the TEFL industry.
If you are stuck at some glass ceiling then perhaps you might want to look in the mirror and do some reflection on your own path and how to move up or move home.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
| Porksta wrote: |
| I'm speaking in hypothetical. |
If you are with the same employer then the only thing that changes is the office and the title (and hopefully the wages).
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Promoted??
from what...lowest foreign slave to senior exotic pet?
There is no "promotion" in ESL, foreigners must be kept in their place ie powerless.
If anything your experience just marks you out as a threat to the clueless bosses. |
Some of us might beg to differ.
If your only claim to fame is a non-related BA, a generic TEFL and couple years in a hagwon that might be true.
If you actually have (or work toward) some legitimate credentials there is upward mobility, promotion, advancement and options.
I haven't worked for as little 2.1M KRW for a long time (2002-pre world cup comes to mind).
I also have a decent office, generous bonuses, nice vacation time AND have managed to buy 5 hectares and build a house (cash) and I AM in the TEFL industry.
If you are stuck at some glass ceiling then perhaps you might want to look in the mirror and do some reflection on your own path and how to move up or move home.
. |
Oh sorry, did I hit a nerve? 
With knee-jerk overreactions like that you'll end up kicking your fantasy house down.
Anyone would think you were ultra-oversensitive about this issue!
When I say promoted, I'm talking about a recognized promotion from one lower position to a higher position as a teacher, within a Korean educational institution.
An advancement granted and bestowed on you by a Korean person (ie not promoting yourself within your own business).
I'm not talking amassing privates for yourself, being self employed, owning your own hogwon or being a recruiter.
"I work in TEFL" could mean you're anything from an advertising company ceo to website owner to babysitter. The OP was clearly talking about teaching under the usual year-long E2 contract. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Oh sorry, did I hit a nerve?
With knee-jerk overreactions like that you'll end up kicking your fantasy house down.
Anyone would think you were ultra-oversensitive about this issue!
When I say promoted, I'm talking about a recognized promotion from one lower position to a higher position as a teacher, within a Korean educational institution.
An advancement granted and bestowed on you by a Korean person (ie not promoting yourself within your own business).
I'm not talking amassing privates for yourself, being self employed, owning your own hogwon or being a recruiter.
"I work in TEFL" could mean you're anything from an advertising company ceo to website owner to babysitter. The OP was clearly talking about teaching under the usual year-long E2 contract. |
No, no hit nerves but the picture you paint only applies to generic, entry level jobs.
Moving from hagwon teacher to PS teacher (back when it meant something) to POE consultant are all improvements in position as well as pay and benefits (still staying within the permitted activities allowed by your visa class) and all promotions were "a recognized promotion from one lower position to a higher position ... within a Korean educational institution" although admittedly, not necessarily as a classroom teacher.
Movement from 25M per year to 50M per year and still on a 40-hour week without "amassing privates" is certainly breaking through the glass ceiling.
Moving up to admin positions in mainstream schools from an EFL function position is advancement (again with pay and benefits to match) and can certainly be done.
You won't get there without professional development and some time to gain experience but for those who are interested there are options.
For the record.... I am a consultant to a POE and earn about 40M per year doing that (E7) as well as being the administrator of a school and earning close to 70M per year for that. I also do speaking engagements as a guest presenter at various conferences and earn about 10M per year for that as well (4-5 engagements per year).
For those who are still working the 30-class per week hagwon circuit at 2.1M after more than a couple of years..... a bit of self reflection in regards to direction and professional development might be in order.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| Porksta wrote: |
| I'm speaking in hypothetical. |
If you are with the same employer then the only thing that changes is the office and the title (and hopefully the wages).
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Promoted??
from what...lowest foreign slave to senior exotic pet?
There is no "promotion" in ESL, foreigners must be kept in their place ie powerless.
If anything your experience just marks you out as a threat to the clueless bosses. |
Some of us might beg to differ.
If your only claim to fame is a non-related BA, a generic TEFL and couple years in a hagwon that might be true.
If you actually have (or work toward) some legitimate credentials there is upward mobility, promotion, advancement and options.
I haven't worked for as little 2.1M KRW for a long time (2002-pre world cup comes to mind).
I also have a decent office, generous bonuses, nice vacation time AND have managed to buy 5 hectares and build a house (cash) and I AM in the TEFL industry.
If you are stuck at some glass ceiling then perhaps you might want to look in the mirror and do some reflection on your own path and how to move up or move home.
. |
Oh sorry, did I hit a nerve?
With knee-jerk overreactions like that you'll end up kicking your fantasy house down.
Anyone would think you were ultra-oversensitive about this issue!
When I say promoted, I'm talking about a recognized promotion from one lower position to a higher position as a teacher, within a Korean educational institution.
An advancement granted and bestowed on you by a Korean person (ie not promoting yourself within your own business).
I'm not talking amassing privates for yourself, being self employed, owning your own hogwon or being a recruiter.
"I work in TEFL" could mean you're anything from an advertising company ceo to website owner to babysitter. The OP was clearly talking about teaching under the usual year-long E2 contract. |
There are plenty of academies that would promote someone internally from a regular teacher to a head teacher. That is a promotion, even when using your very particular definition of one. A head teacher would be responsible for scheduling, ongoing training, and leading workshops etc. They would of course also command a higher salary. This is not a particularly rare occurrence. I'm puzzled as to why you would think it so unlikely. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Oh sorry, did I hit a nerve?
With knee-jerk overreactions like that you'll end up kicking your fantasy house down.
Anyone would think you were ultra-oversensitive about this issue!
When I say promoted, I'm talking about a recognized promotion from one lower position to a higher position as a teacher, within a Korean educational institution.
An advancement granted and bestowed on you by a Korean person (ie not promoting yourself within your own business).
I'm not talking amassing privates for yourself, being self employed, owning your own hogwon or being a recruiter.
"I work in TEFL" could mean you're anything from an advertising company ceo to website owner to babysitter. The OP was clearly talking about teaching under the usual year-long E2 contract. |
No, no hit nerves but the picture you paint only applies to generic, entry level jobs.
Moving from hagwon teacher to PS teacher (back when it meant something) to POE consultant are all improvements in position as well as pay and benefits (still staying within the permitted activities allowed by your visa class) and all promotions were "a recognized promotion from one lower position to a higher position ... within a Korean educational institution" although admittedly, not necessarily as a classroom teacher.
Movement from 25M per year to 50M per year and still on a 40-hour week without "amassing privates" is certainly breaking through the glass ceiling.
Moving up to admin positions in mainstream schools from an EFL function position is advancement (again with pay and benefits to match) and can certainly be done.
You won't get there without professional development and some time to gain experience but for those who are interested there are options.
For the record.... I am a consultant to a POE and earn about 40M per year doing that (E7) as well as being the administrator of a school and earning close to 70M per year for that. I also do speaking engagements as a guest presenter at various conferences and earn about 10M per year for that as well (4-5 engagements per year).
For those who are still working the 30-class per week hagwon circuit at 2.1M after more than a couple of years..... a bit of self reflection in regards to direction and professional development might be in order.
. |
I am actually curious if by school you mean academy or an accredited type of school like a public or private school that is able to give credits.
I ask because if it is an academy, it makes sense that you can do consulting work in addition to whatever administrative duties it is you are doing.
I will be moving into an administrative position next contract and I start at the bottom of the pay scale for that move, but it pays around $72,000 US and is considered a junior admin job. This is not at an academy. I would not be able to do any consulting or other work in this job due to time constraints.
Also, don't let the haters on here get to you. For every 100 or so that think "yeah right" there is one who thinks "really?" and that one goes and gets some better qualifications and professional development to enable them to get into better and better positions.
As to the OP: my first promotion was back in 2003 to be the coordinator for our English foreign teachers. I didn't make a whole new contract. They made a 1 page contract that basically stated my new title, job responsibilities and extra pay. The contract was dated on the day of my promotion and ended the last day of my regular contract. The new contract had an extra page with the coordinator pay and duties and was the one used for the MoE. (I was an F2 visa holder then so no immigration nonsense) I hope this helps. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Basically my concern is this - would the promotion be an addendum onto my current contract? Would I still get credit for one year of service if my title changes during my one year? It wouldn't count as finishing a contract early and starting a new short-term contract? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Porksta wrote: |
| Basically my concern is this - would the promotion be an addendum onto my current contract? Would I still get credit for one year of service if my title changes during my one year? It wouldn't count as finishing a contract early and starting a new short-term contract? |
AS long as you are with the SAME employer of record there is NO difference re: finishing your year of service in reference to severance as it pertains to the labor standards acts.
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
I am actually curious if by school you mean academy or an accredited type of school like a public or private school that is able to give credits.
I ask because if it is an academy, it makes sense that you can do consulting work in addition to whatever administrative duties it is you are doing. |
E7 as a consultant for a POE is only about 8-10 weeks per year of full time equivalent work.
Administrator of a K-12, mainstream private school (internationally accredited - CfBT) takes up the majority of my time.
Presenting at conferences takes 20-30 days per year (including travel time).
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| I will be moving into an administrative position next contract and I start at the bottom of the pay scale for that move, but it pays around $72,000 US and is considered a junior admin job. This is not at an academy. I would not be able to do any consulting or other work in this job due to time constraints. |
As you get more comfortable in your admin position you will also find that you have more time available for other options. It is that learning curve that will hit you in the 1st year. Being a good admin is as much art as it is science.
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| Also, don't let the haters on here get to you. For every 100 or so that think "yeah right" there is one who thinks "really?" and that one goes and gets some better qualifications and professional development to enable them to get into better and better positions. |
Not worried about them. Any who are legitimately serious are welcome to come visit. As they say, the proof is in the pudding.
They can also meet me at one of the many conferences in Asia. I will be at the PELLTA conference in May, the KOTESOL conference in October and the Asia TEFL conference in Nov.
The rest can just hand out in what is left of Itaewan and discuss how bad things have become for "highly experienced" entry level EFL teachers from the bottom of their beer mug.
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
As to the OP: my first promotion was back in 2003 to be the coordinator for our English foreign teachers. I didn't make a whole new contract. They made a 1 page contract that basically stated my new title, job responsibilities and extra pay. The contract was dated on the day of my promotion and ended the last day of my regular contract. The new contract had an extra page with the coordinator pay and duties and was the one used for the MoE. (I was an F2 visa holder then so no immigration nonsense) I hope this helps. |
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
The rest can just hand out in what is left of Itaewan and discuss how bad things have become for "highly experienced" entry level EFL teachers from the bottom of their beer mug.
|
And you know what you'll be saying - a bunch of losers sittin' around in a bar. 'Oh yeah. I used to be an EFL teacher. It's a tough racket.' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Porksta wrote: |
| Basically my concern is this - would the promotion be an addendum onto my current contract? Would I still get credit for one year of service if my title changes during my one year? It wouldn't count as finishing a contract early and starting a new short-term contract? |
It was for me. 1 page that was separate from my original contract that just stated the raise and responsibilities. In the next contract cycle I had all that incorporated into the actual contract itself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Porksta wrote: |
| Basically my concern is this - would the promotion be an addendum onto my current contract? Would I still get credit for one year of service if my title changes during my one year? It wouldn't count as finishing a contract early and starting a new short-term contract? |
It doesn't necessarily need to be an addition to the contract. It can be a new contract. As long as it's the same employer, it's considered continual employment. Just make sure that you DO NOT collect your severance at the end of that first year. If you do, you will not get it again until you complete another 12 months. If you do not collect it, then you will get severance based on the total number of months you have worked. (e.g. an extra 6 months will give you 18 months total) AND remember that your severance is based on the average salary of your final 3 months. If you get a raise at the end of the first year, your entire severance will be based on the new salary, not 12 months of the old salary and 6 months of the new salary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
