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Asiana flight crash lands (again).
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:39 pm    Post subject: Asiana flight crash lands (again). Reply with quote

Well, here we go again. http://www.wsj.com/articles/asiana-airlines-plane-clipped-communications-towers-before-veering-off-japan-runway-1429068123

Nothing learned.
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a cultural miscommunication.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This never happens with western air carriers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_331

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Flight_624

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_1086

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_1354

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express_Flight_80

Or perhaps runway collision incidents

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Wayne_County_Airport_runway_collision

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Logan_Airport_runway_incursion

WHY DON'T THEY LEARN??? NOTHING EVER CHANGES. IT'S CULTURE!!!!!

Rolling Eyes
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Bongotruck



Joined: 19 Mar 2015

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nonetheless, my next flight is not a Korean carrier. There have been a lot of major and minor accidents recently and passenger confidence is at an all time low.

Korean air seems safer but their owners are douchebags. Take your pick.


Steelrails wrote:
This never happens with western air carriers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_331

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Flight_624

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_1086

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_1354

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express_Flight_80

Or perhaps runway collision incidents

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Wayne_County_Airport_runway_collision

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Logan_Airport_runway_incursion

WHY DON'T THEY LEARN??? NOTHING EVER CHANGES. IT'S CULTURE!!!!!

Rolling Eyes
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Kepler



Joined: 24 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, if you go back go back as far as the seventies you can find plenty of examples of air plane crashes. However, during the last five years Asiana Airlines has had the highest crash rate worldwide. Korean Air had a very high crash rate during the 1980s and 1990s.
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kepler wrote:
However, during the last five years Asiana Airlines has had the highest crash rate worldwide.


Link?
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recent crashes:
http://www.airsafe.com/events/last_15.htm

Asian crash rates (2014/15 not included):
http://www.airsafe.com/events/regions/asia.htm

Quite a few airlines have much, much higher crash rates than Asiana. Check out the African, and Latin American links.
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PeteJB



Joined: 06 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's better to compare airlines as opposed to Korean vs West. You need to rework that list Wink
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Kepler



Joined: 24 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithington wrote:
Kepler wrote:
However, during the last five years Asiana Airlines has had the highest crash rate worldwide.


Link?

July 2011 - an Asiana flight crashed near Jeju.
July 2013 - an Asiana flight crashed in San Franscisco.
April 2015- an Asiana flight crashed in Hiroshima.

That's three crashes in less than four years which is unusual.

http://www.airfleets.net/crash/stat_airline.htm
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optik404



Joined: 24 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kepler wrote:
Smithington wrote:
Kepler wrote:
However, during the last five years Asiana Airlines has had the highest crash rate worldwide.


Link?

July 2011 - an Asiana flight crashed near Jeju.
July 2013 - an Asiana flight crashed in San Franscisco.
April 2015- an Asiana flight crashed in Hiroshima.

That's three crashes in less than four years which is unusual.

http://www.airfleets.net/crash/stat_airline.htm


Anything to back up your claim?
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kepler wrote:
Of course, if you go back go back as far as the seventies you can find plenty of examples of air plane crashes. However, during the last five years Asiana Airlines has had the highest crash rate worldwide. Korean Air had a very high crash rate during the 1980s and 1990s.


The reason I listed the Tenerife disaster was to show a pattern of continued accidents involving runway collisions. Why don't they learn? Nothing ever changes.

The rest of the incidents were all North American air carriers and have occurred relatively recently. Also, it should be noted that the American Airlines Jamaican incident was the 3rd improper landing in 2 weeks by American Airlines. They had had 2 wingtip scrapes prior.

Quote:
July 2011 - an Asiana flight crashed near Jeju.
July 2013 - an Asiana flight crashed in San Franscisco.
April 2015- an Asiana flight crashed in Hiroshima.

That's three crashes in less than four years which is unusual.


It should be noted that investigations have not assigned any blame to Asiana Airlines or its pilots in the Jeju crash. Asiana followed all standard procedures and pilot error was not to blame.

I'd assume pilot error in Hiroshima. As far as SFO, other Asiana pilots had made the flight fine and been able to not have issues with the controls or the approach. Everyone else learned, just not that one pilot. It was not like they deliberately crashed the plane.

We'll see in Hiroshima, but the cause will probably be something like the other short landing incidents involving other airlines.

Anyways, one should be careful about declaring "culture" to blame. It only seems to apply to Asian airlines, but never to US or European airlines. Was culture to blame for Germanwings?
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't the Jeju crash a cargo plane, and a possible suicide?
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
Wasn't the Jeju crash a cargo plane, and a possible suicide?


Lithium batteries in its cargo hold caught fire. Same thing brought down a UPS plane and its also a possible cause in the missing Malaysia flight.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31709198
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Kepler



Joined: 24 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

optik404 wrote:
Kepler wrote:
Smithington wrote:
Kepler wrote:
However, during the last five years Asiana Airlines has had the highest crash rate worldwide.


Link?

July 2011 - an Asiana flight crashed near Jeju.
July 2013 - an Asiana flight crashed in San Franscisco.
April 2015- an Asiana flight crashed in Hiroshima.

That's three crashes in less than four years which is unusual.

http://www.airfleets.net/crash/stat_airline.htm


Anything to back up your claim?

The evidence is in the link. Duh-uh.
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Kepler



Joined: 24 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korean culture definitely did have something to do with the crash in San Francisco- at least that's what the flying pilot told US investigators. He said he was very nervous about landing the plane, but he couldn't abort and make a second attempt because he wasn't the senior pilot. Furthermore, there was a third pilot present who warned the other pilots four times that the plane was descending too rapidly. He was ignored because he the youngest pilot.
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