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Discrimination towards accents
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isitts



Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ToySurprise wrote:
The ideal English program in my mind would teach a variety of dialects and accents, not just one supposedly "neutral" English, whatever that means. This goes without saying.

True, and we should perhaps also remember that most students learning English as a second/foreign language are more likely than not going to use it to speak to others who learned English as a second/foreign language.

And this English (or these Englishes) get modified to suit the local culture to further Konglish, Engrish, Singlish, etc. to the point where even native speakers can't understand what they're talking about until we learn it.

As I understand it, all native English speakers in the world are already in the minority of world English speakers. However, since how we speak is connected to our identity, it's quite natural that we take these squabbles personally.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Accent-reduction courses are a basic part of voice training for many actors ...
http://www.actingstudio.com/newyork/our-classes/additional-classes/voice-and-speech
http://www.reelenglishcoach.com/actors/courses/
http://patriciafletcher.com/
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drcrazy



Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does get on my nerves to hear Americer, Africer, Princess Dianer, etc.

But, "e's the bloke what was lookin' at me bum." Sounds OK.
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sector7G wrote:
happyinhenan wrote:
Yes. I find Americans make a big deal out of it as well and never Canadians in my experience.
Just curious - in what way do Americans "make a big deal" out of it? Do you mean that they brag about it?



No, he is erroneously suggesting that Canadians are nicer and more amiable than Americans. Which we know is not true.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
Sector7G wrote:
happyinhenan wrote:
Yes. I find Americans make a big deal out of it as well and never Canadians in my experience.
Just curious - in what way do Americans "make a big deal" out of it? Do you mean that they brag about it?



No, he is erroneously suggesting that Canadians are nicer and more amiable than Americans. Which we know is not true.
Actually, I think I originally misunderstood happyinhenan. Since I was pretty sure the OP was talking about Korean preferences, I assumed that was the "it" happyinhenan said Americans make a big deal out of. But now I think he meant it is Americans who make a big deal out of different western accents, and I am scratching my head wondering how he came up with that......

And speaking as a citizen of Los Estado Unidos, I would have no problem saying that Canadians are nicer and more amiable than us, at least the ones I have met, both in Korea and back home(which is a lot). More so the ones I have met in Korea.
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jazzmaster



Joined: 30 Sep 2013

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Among the people i meet it's usually Americans that struggle with other accents.
Maybe it's due to a lack of exposure to accents that differ from their own.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jazzmaster wrote:
Among the people i meet it's usually Americans that struggle with other accents.
Maybe it's due to a lack of exposure to accents that differ from their own.
Lack of exposure to accents that differ from their own?? What??Have you ever been to America? There are accents from all over the world, and not just the English speaking countries. Why do you think they call it the Melting Pot?

Anyway, what do you consider a "struggle"? An occasional misunderstood word?
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happyinhenan



Joined: 01 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sector7G wrote:


No, he is erroneously suggesting that Canadians are nicer and more amiable than Americans. Which we know is not true.
Actually, I think I originally misunderstood happyinhenan. Since I was pretty sure the OP was talking about Korean preferences, I assumed that was the "it" happyinhenan said Americans make a big deal out of. But now I think he meant it is Americans who make a big deal out of different western accents, and I am scratching my head wondering how he came up with that......[/quote]

How did I come up with it? With the Americans I meet, I am the one with the 'accent' as is Jazzmaster - just relaying my experiences on it. I have no reason to lie or embellish my findings.

I think I also said there are Americans who have no problems with how I speak.

Quote:
And speaking as a citizen of Los Estado Unidos, I would have no problem saying that Canadians are nicer and more amiable than us, at least the ones I have met, both in Korea and back home(which is a lot). More so the ones I have met in Korea.


I never said Canadians are nicer than Americans - all I said was that Canadians have less problems understanding various British accents because of (still) considerable emigration from the United Kingdom to their country. I have never had a Canadian say to me 'I don't understand what you are saying' however, there are as many Canadian jerks as there are Americans/British/Lithuanian/Congolese.
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happyinhenan



Joined: 01 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jazzmaster wrote:
Among the people i meet it's usually Americans that struggle with other accents.
Maybe it's due to a lack of exposure to accents that differ from their own.
Lack of exposure to accents that differ from their own?? What??Have you ever been to America? There are accents from all over the world, and not just the English speaking countries. Why do you think they call it the Melting Pot?[/quote]

I have, and there are very few places in the states (Outside of New York, California and Florida) where there are lots of Brits. I can imagine why an American would struggle with a Geordie accent, and they do when confronted with one.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

happyinhenan wrote:

I never said Canadians are nicer than Americans - all I said was that Canadians have less problems understanding various British accents because of (still) considerable emigration from the United Kingdom to their country.

I never said you did...I was just making a general statement , in response to someone else, that most of the Canadians I have met in Korea(and Florida)have been pretty cool people.
happyinhenan wrote:
I have never had a Canadian say to me 'I don't understand what you are saying' however, there are as many Canadian jerks as there are Americans/British/Lithuanian/Congolese.
What does not understanding an accent have to do with being a jerk? And how is saying "I don't understand what you are saying" making a "big deal??

happyinhenan wrote:
I have, and there are very few places in the states (Outside of New York, California and Florida) where there are lots of Brits. I can imagine why an American would struggle with a Geordie accent, and they do when confronted with one.
It doesn't matter what state - if they are teaching ESL then they have a degree, which means they went to a college or university where they were likely exposed to more diverse accents than the population as a whole. I think you and jazzmaster are exaggerating the "struggle" part. Your evidence is anecdotal, as is mine, which is that I have never heard a fellow American say to me, "Damn, I can't understand what that Brit is saying". British slang was probably the only thing I ever had a problem with...words like bollocks and wanker...but that was learned quickly enough, usually without even having to ask- through sheer context....but that is different than accent....

Anyway, I could be wrong, but I still say the OP was talking about Korean preferences. You took the thread in a different direction.
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jazzmaster



Joined: 30 Sep 2013

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sector7G wrote:
jazzmaster wrote:
Among the people i meet it's usually Americans that struggle with other accents.
Maybe it's due to a lack of exposure to accents that differ from their own.
Lack of exposure to accents that differ from their own?? What??Have you ever been to America? There are accents from all over the world, and not just the English speaking countries. Why do you think they call it the Melting Pot?

Anyway, what do you consider a "struggle"? An occasional misunderstood word?


I lived in America for a while and i stand by my comment. The media is usually all Amercan accents. The vast majority of people i met had American accents. They probably call it the melting pot because everything melts and mutates into a bland mix of banality and conformity.
I define atruggle as Americans struggling to understand accents other than their own, which is a common occurance.

In Europe we have exposure to numerous languages and variations of English. Far more than America. It's strange that you fail to comprehend this and even stranger it upsets you.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jazzmaster wrote:

In Europe we have exposure to numerous languages and variations of English. Far more than America. It's strange that you fail to comprehend this and even stranger it upsets you.
This is your opinion, and I do comprehend it, and it does not upset me in the least.
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happyinhenan



Joined: 01 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sector7G wrote:

I never said you did...I was just making a general statement , in response to someone else, that most of the Canadians I have met in Korea(and Florida)have been pretty cool people.


Well, the original 'Canadians are nicer' comment was an accusation by WT that I thought or said Canadians are nicer or better people so the general statement has no place in this argument, in fact, WT took back the comment later on in this thread.


Quote:
What does not understanding an accent have to do with being a jerk?


Because it goes back to WT's comment about Canadians, keep up, you are being obtuse for no reason, you aren't this thick real life - probably.

Quote:
And how is saying "I don't understand what you are saying" making a "big deal??


Because if someone is speaking the same language as you - it isn't very polite to say that - I have never said that ever to anyone.

happyinhenan wrote:
It doesn't matter what state - if they are teaching ESL then they have a degree, which means they went to a college or university where they were likely exposed to more diverse accents than the population as a whole.


This argument is getting silly now. Some universities have a student population from all over the world, some have a very small foreign student population - and even if a person went to a university with a large student population who speak differently to them, does not mean they interacted with those people.

Whereas, where I am from, the accent changes every 15 miles. It isn't a big deal to come across someone with a different accent to me like it would be to an American.


Quote:
I think you and jazzmaster are exaggerating the "struggle" part.


I am the one with the British 'accent' (as is he) dealing with Americans - so how do you think your experience equals ours on how Americans react to how we speak?

I think I have said this before, not every American has a problem with the way I speak - so yes, you might not have a problem with my dulcet tones but lots do.

Christ, now I know why they have to teach 'critical thinking skills' in your universities!


Quote:
Your evidence is anecdotal, as is mine, which is that I have never heard a fellow American say to me, "Damn, I can't understand what that Brit is saying". British slang was probably the only thing I ever had a problem with...words like bollocks and wanker...but that was learned quickly enough, usually without even having to ask- through sheer context....but that is different than accent....


This is how little you know - dialect and accent is intertwined, the tone, sound and the words used all make up the way one speaks.

Quote:
Anyway, I could be wrong, but I still say the OP was talking about Korean preferences. You took the thread in a different direction.


It could be both, not every person who hires and fires is a Korean, some of them are American.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

happyinhenan wrote:
Sector7G wrote:

I never said you did...I was just making a general statement , in response to someone else, that most of the Canadians I have met in Korea(and Florida)have been pretty cool people.


Well, the original 'Canadians are nicer' comment was an accusation by WT that I thought or said Canadians are nicer or better people so the general statement has no place in this argument, in fact, WT took back the comment later on in this thread.


Quote:
What does not understanding an accent have to do with being a jerk?


Because it goes back to WT's comment about Canadians, keep up, you are being obtuse for no reason, you aren't this thick real life - probably.

Quote:
And how is saying "I don't understand what you are saying" making a "big deal??


Because if someone is speaking the same language as you - it isn't very polite to say that - I have never said that ever to anyone.

happyinhenan wrote:
It doesn't matter what state - if they are teaching ESL then they have a degree, which means they went to a college or university where they were likely exposed to more diverse accents than the population as a whole.


This argument is getting silly now. Some universities have a student population from all over the world, some have a very small foreign student population - and even if a person went to a university with a large student population who speak differently to them, does not mean they interacted with those people.

Whereas, where I am from, the accent changes every 15 miles. It isn't a big deal to come across someone with a different accent to me like it would be to an American.


Quote:
I think you and jazzmaster are exaggerating the "struggle" part.


I am the one with the British 'accent' (as is he) dealing with Americans - so how do you think your experience equals ours on how Americans react to how we speak?

I think I have said this before, not every American has a problem with the way I speak - so yes, you might not have a problem with my dulcet tones but lots do.

Christ, now I know why they have to teach 'critical thinking skills' in your universities!


Quote:
Your evidence is anecdotal, as is mine, which is that I have never heard a fellow American say to me, "Damn, I can't understand what that Brit is saying". British slang was probably the only thing I ever had a problem with...words like bollocks and wanker...but that was learned quickly enough, usually without even having to ask- through sheer context....but that is different than accent....


This is how little you know - dialect and accent is intertwined, the tone, sound and the words used all make up the way one speaks.

I agree with you that the argument is starting to get silly, but no where in these quotes of mine or any other on this thread did I say anything that warrants your insults and snippy tone. Your attitude actually reinforces my belief that you are exaggerating the "struggle" Americans have had with your accent, as it seems like you may be a little over sensitive.

happyinhenan wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, I could be wrong, but I still say the OP was talking about Korean preferences. You took the thread in a different direction.


It could be both, not every person who hires and fires is a Korean, some of them are American.
Yes, but as I stated in my very first comments "...... preferences would be sorted out in the hiring process. I doubt that a school would hire someone with a UK passport, and then be surprised and/or disappointed that he spoke with a British accent once he got to Korea." The OP was talking about discrimination against those already in Korea.
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jazzmaster



Joined: 30 Sep 2013

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree with you that the argument is starting to get silly, but no where in these quotes of mine or any other on this thread did I say anything that warrants your insults and snippy tone. Your attitude actually reinforces my belief that you are exaggerating the "struggle" Americans have had with your accent, as it seems like you may be a little over sensitive.


His attitude only reinforces his frustration at dealing with the pig headed nature you are displaying on this thread. You have no experience of your British accent being a struggle for Americans to understand.
Therefore your belief is based upon no experience, instead it only exists to support what you want to be true.

Two people on this thread who have British accents are saying that Americans are the most likely to struggle to comprehend what they are saying. I support this statement by having experience of living in America, having many American friends and work colleagues, and regularly meeting American people. I have also been lucky enough to travel extensively through Europe and Asia. Some of the countries have included Spain (my family owns a home there), Portugal, Ireland, England, Scotland, France, the Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Italy, Czech Rep, Austria, Malaysia, Philippines, Japan, China, Bali, and many more.

Due to my experiences, and most importantly having a British accent, I am telling you that Americans were far more likely to struggle to understand my accent.
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