|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
|
 Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:43 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| slothrop wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Nearly 80% of millionaires in America are first generation millionaires. They didn't inherit it. They earned it. |
of course they are first generation millionaires, because in their parents generation being a millionaire actually meant something, it was like being a half a billionaire today, nowadays being a millionaire just means you already owned property in California or got into the the fed fueled stock market bubble at the right time. there must be 100 times more millionaires today than there were 20 years ago. there are rat infested bungalows on quarter acre lots near san fran for sale asking more than a million. I guess that makes the 60 year old hippy owner who is on food stamps and unemployment a millionaire. he sure did earn it! and guess what? when mr hippy did his masters degree at berkley in the early seventies it cost a few hundred bucks and he was able to pay for it with his part time job at the health food store. he didn't need to take out a hundred thou in loans and become a debt slave to THE MAN!
25 years ago my tuition was about $1200 a semester. I had a part time job at a supermarket making 8$ and hour. i went to college mon-thurs and worked fri-sun. summer and winter i worked more. i was not only able to pay my tuition without student loans, I also made payments on a new car(nissan sentra), car insurance, gas, books, and still had money left over to go out with friends to a diner whenever i felt like it. now the tuition has quadrupled and insurance and food has at least doubled, but that part time job only pays a 1 or 2 dollars an hour more than it did 25 years ago. the system that is in place today is set up to make debt slaves out of everybody. the best and brightest will be able to overcome the financial burden eventually, but most people will never be able to. I ask... who is profiting from this set up? because whoever it is has destroyed america. |
Sure the best and brightest will reap a success from their university educations. That's who university is there for, the best and the brightest. This is why most of the people attending university shouldn't be there. However, if the universities didn't open up their doors, people would be screaming about the MAN is out to get them and make slaves out of them. There are loans for those who can't afford the tuition up front, but can later pay it back when they become successful. We don't want to hear, I could have been a Super Star but the MAN new I couldn't go because I live with my poor grandmother and my daddy is an alcoholic and my mother is in jail.
I have talked with numerous people here in SK who have student loans hanging on their shoulders. Most everyone who I have talked with about their loan has always been paying the minimum. Yet, they are always planning a trip to Bali or elsewhere during their school vacation, or have a big 30 day trip planned somewhere when they finish their contracts. Still, the student loans haven't been paid. I saved roughly 16 million my first year in Korea. That has been the lowest I have saved in any given year since I have been here. If people aren't able to pay off their loans they aren't doing something right. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
Too many people don't want to put the sweat, hard work, time, and effort into what it takes to reap the big benefits of the cost of an education. |
And this is why America is America. :sigh:
Give me a break... |
Nearly 80% of millionaires in America are first generation millionaires. They didn't inherit it. They earned it. |
What do millionaires being self-made have to do with the student loan system? |
It has to do with success without a handout.
I know, I know. Everyone wants the government, a.k.a. taxpayer, a.k.a. me to provide them with free-
university education
home
new car
big screen TV
NIKE Super Fly shoes
food
medical care
cell phones
computer games
daycare
lunch and breakfast at school
welfare payment
ETC |
Characterizing the positions of others, particularly in such a demeaning light, is not persuasive and is not helping your credibility in terms of your defense of the student loan system.
So your position appears to be that the student loan system is good because many want "a free handout" and that's bad and people should pay individually for services which might otherwise be socialized. I do not expect a dissertation or original research, but nonetheless the level of your policy analysis disappoints.
For example, you've done nothing to establish that the student loan system has anything to do with the number of self-made millionaires; it could be that student loan system reforms might increase the overall number of self-made millionaires and that "free enterprise" would be better off with greater socialization in this area of the economy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
edit
Last edited by slothrop on Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| The # of available scholarships and grants has also shrunk. |
That's factually inaccurate, radcon.
| Quote: |
| Pell Grant funding rose by 26 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars. |
| Quote: |
| Institutional grants have greatly increased over the past decade, from 28 percent in 1999-2000 to 42 percent in 2009-2010. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
Too many people don't want to put the sweat, hard work, time, and effort into what it takes to reap the big benefits of the cost of an education. |
And this is why America is America. :sigh:
Give me a break... |
Nearly 80% of millionaires in America are first generation millionaires. They didn't inherit it. They earned it. |
What do millionaires being self-made have to do with the student loan system? |
It has to do with success without a handout.
I know, I know. Everyone wants the government, a.k.a. taxpayer, a.k.a. me to provide them with free-
university education
home
new car
big screen TV
NIKE Super Fly shoes
food
medical care
cell phones
computer games
daycare
lunch and breakfast at school
welfare payment
ETC |
Characterizing the positions of others, particularly in such a demeaning light, is not persuasive and is not helping your credibility in terms of your defense of the student loan system.
So your position appears to be that the student loan system is good because many want "a free handout" and that's bad and people should pay individually for services which might otherwise be socialized. I do not expect a dissertation or original research, but nonetheless the level of your policy analysis disappoints.
For example, you've done nothing to establish that the student loan system has anything to do with the number of self-made millionaires; it could be that student loan system reforms might increase the overall number of self-made millionaires and that "free enterprise" would be better off with greater socialization in this area of the economy. |
You are building straw men and claiming positions that appear to be. I've made the position that people should pay back loans instead of taking vacations with their spare money. This is what a person with good character does.
There are so many federal grants, pell grants, scholarships, student loans, small business loans, jobs, and opportunities that it's almost impossible not to become reasonably successful and even debt free within 10 years of graduating university. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wooden nickels wrote: |
I've made the position that people should pay back loans instead of taking vacations with their spare money. This is what a person with good character does.
There are so many federal grants, pell grants, scholarships, student loans, small business loans, jobs, and opportunities that it's almost impossible not to become reasonably successful and even debt free within 10 years of graduating university. |
I think earlier up the thread, we saw that an A-student had a narrower than 20% chance to obtain an academic scholarship. In many cases, a student will have no choice but to borrow to pay for their education, an education necessary (but often not in itself sufficient) to receive a good income.
Furthermore, is there any evidence that people are going on vacations with their discretionary income rather than paying back student loans? Even if there is, what is wrong with having some discretionary income to purchase a few things which are not necessary in the most strictest sense, for example, two vacations a year may help someone's productivity, their overall perspective, and enrich their energy reserves to work as well as their overall mental well-being.
Also, it seems that you are bent towards an education exclusively as a means to the end of making more money. Some of us would argue that an education is a good in itself, and provides other benefits beyond a higher income. In this case, the student loan system is failing our students because its turning university into a vocational and transactional proposition.
In short, I find your view of the purpose of education to be narrow, limited, and rather impoverished. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| There are far too many tax-funded free programs. Get a job, or maybe 2 if planning on having a jacuzzi in the bedroom. Put on the big boy pants and stop depending on others to pay for the party. That's what responsible adults do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| There are far too many tax-funded free programs. |
That's an oxymoron. If its tax-funded its not free.
In any case, name some of them. I totally disagree that in America that there are too many tax-funded socialized programs. There are too few and the commonweal has been far too privatized.
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Put on the big boy pants and stop depending on others to pay for the party. That's what responsible adults do. |
Additionally, I don't think its merely incidental to your position that you speak so casually and in such a black-and-white moral manner about such a grey and murky practical issue, and that you also seem to demean those who suffer economically. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
I've made the position that people should pay back loans instead of taking vacations with their spare money. This is what a person with good character does.
There are so many federal grants, pell grants, scholarships, student loans, small business loans, jobs, and opportunities that it's almost impossible not to become reasonably successful and even debt free within 10 years of graduating university. |
I think earlier up the thread, we saw that an A-student had a narrower than 20% chance to obtain an academic scholarship. In many cases, a student will have no choice but to borrow to pay for their education, an education necessary (but often not in itself sufficient) to receive a good income.
Furthermore, is there any evidence that people are going on vacations with their discretionary income rather than paying back student loans? Even if there is, what is wrong with having some discretionary income to purchase a few things which are not necessary in the most strictest sense, for example, two vacations a year may help someone's productivity, their overall perspective, and enrich their energy reserves to work as well as their overall mental well-being.
Also, it seems that you are bent towards an education exclusively as a means to the end of making more money. Some of us would argue that an education is a good in itself, and provides other benefits beyond a higher income. In this case, the student loan system is failing our students because its turning university into a vocational and transactional proposition.
In short, I find your view of the purpose of education to be narrow, limited, and rather impoverished. |
If a person takes out a loan to buy a truck it doesn't really matter if he uses it for business purposes to make money or if he uses it to haul bikini girls on back while coon hunting in the swamps of Louisiana. If you borrow the money pay it back.
I have an MA in education. My education has provided me with a suitable income. I was able to learn a second language and teach because of it. I have traveled and lived around the world. A person can attain knowledge for pleasure and knowledge for business at the same time in university. Some people have double majors for this purpose.
You have the right to your own opinion. The person who pulls up to the gas station and drives off knowingly not paying for the gas because Exxon Mobile makes billions of dollars has the right to his opinion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| There are far too many tax-funded free programs. |
That's an oxymoron. If its tax-funded its not free.
In any case, name some of them. I totally disagree that in America that there are too many tax-funded socialized programs. There are too few and the commonweal has been far too privatized.
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Put on the big boy pants and stop depending on others to pay for the party. That's what responsible adults do. |
Additionally, I don't think its merely incidental to your position that you speak so casually and in such a black-and-white moral manner about such a grey and murky practical issue, and that you also seem to demean those who suffer economically. |
That's what I'm getting at. Nothing is free. Pay for your own education. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| There are far too many tax-funded free programs. |
That's an oxymoron. If its tax-funded its not free. |
That's what I'm getting at. Nothing is free. Pay for your own education. |
Yes. Pay for your own education, but only once you've completed it, and once it has provided its income benefit to you, through taxation.
Nothing is free, so let us avoid speaking about taxation and allocation as if it constitutes a free ride. It doesn't. It constitutes common investment and common benefit, which is exactly what an education provides, particularly an education degree. I mean who is the true beneficiary of the education degree if not the students who study from the person who has the degree? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| There are far too many tax-funded free programs. |
That's an oxymoron. If its tax-funded its not free. |
That's what I'm getting at. Nothing is free. Pay for your own education. |
Yes. Pay for your own education, but only once you've completed it, and once it has provided its income benefit to you, through taxation.
Nothing is free, so let us avoid speaking about taxation and allocation as if it constitutes a free ride. It doesn't. It constitutes common investment and common benefit, which is exactly what an education provides, particularly an education degree. I mean who is the true beneficiary of the education degree if not the students who study from the person who has the degree? |
I paid my student loan and I have benefited from my degree as well as my students.
It sounds dumb if I say I'm going to borrow some money to buy cars to start a taxi company but I'm not going to pay it back because the riders are the true beneficiaries from the taxis and it will provide benefit through taxation. And now I have some extra cash flow to pay for more than necessities but I'm still not going to pay it because it will use the money for 2 weeks of vacation to improve my productivity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| World Traveler wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| The # of available scholarships and grants has also shrunk. |
That's factually inaccurate, radcon.
| Quote: |
| Pell Grant funding rose by 26 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars. |
| Quote: |
| Institutional grants have greatly increased over the past decade, from 28 percent in 1999-2000 to 42 percent in 2009-2010. |
|
1. Pell grant funding rose by 26% from when to when? And how much did the average cost of college rise during that same period? I'm guessing more than 26%.
2. 42% of what? What institutional grants?
You might want to provide a link next time so we can understand your random stats more clearly.
and
3. I am guessing radcon is a poster on this board, but beyond that, I have no idea who s/he is. Not sure what s/he has to do with anything... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| There are far too many tax-funded free programs. |
That's an oxymoron. If its tax-funded its not free. |
That's what I'm getting at. Nothing is free. Pay for your own education. |
Yes. Pay for your own education, but only once you've completed it, and once it has provided its income benefit to you, through taxation.
Nothing is free, so let us avoid speaking about taxation and allocation as if it constitutes a free ride. It doesn't. It constitutes common investment and common benefit, which is exactly what an education provides, particularly an education degree. I mean who is the true beneficiary of the education degree if not the students who study from the person who has the degree? |
I paid my student loan and I have benefited from my degree as well as my students.
It sounds dumb if I say I'm going to borrow some money to buy cars to start a taxi company but I'm not going to pay it back because the riders are the true beneficiaries from the taxis and it will provide benefit through taxation. And now I have some extra cash flow to pay for more than necessities but I'm still not going to pay it because it will use the money for 2 weeks of vacation to improve my productivity. |
Yeah, we get it. You think you're fantastic and everyone else should be capable of following in your footsteps.
Long live the self-centered policy views of the right-wing....
Hopefully you're not BSing us and aren't the complete hypocrite that Marco Rubio is... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Use Google, man. College tuition has risen but so have grants and scholarships (with is rarely mentioned). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
