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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:59 pm Post subject: Very Fun Surprise Hagwon Firing |
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So, my girlfriend and I got surprise fired from our hagwon today after a year and a half here. Basically the excuse was no money and also MERS is driving all the students away. Also the owner just bought two new yellow vans which I'm sure was very hard on him.
We're yet to work out some of the details (he claims he'll get us a plane ticket home, we're not sure when he wants us to actually stop working etc). We're supposed to work that stuff out today.
Also forgive me if this is a little confusing, we went out drinking last night after the news and now it's 7:30 in the morning and I'm pretty braindead. I can feel the words coming out of me like lead, but I thought I should these questions out ASAP so here I am.
The biggest issue is that he currently owes us a month of backpay (about 1,900,000 each) on top of the severance from our last contract (about 2,100,000 each, this is really old, like from February. The plan with that was that he'd pay us in parts to alleviate the burden, and now its been months and months and we've seen nothing). Further, we have a bunch of unpaid pension (about 700$ each, though the impression I get is that there's really no way of getting him to pay this other than asking very nicely). Then, on top of that, he's talking about getting us home as soon as possible, which would be before our regular pay date. In which case we'd likely get our June paycheck after we'd left for home (this is also very likely because, again, the guy owes us back payment and probably couldn't possibly get us all this at once).
So basically:
Old Severance: 2,100,00 each
May: 1,900,00 each
Pension: roughly 700,000 each
Eventually our June paycheck: 1,900,00 each
Anyway, this is a whole lot of money I'm worried about. Part of the issue is that I can't really afford to stick around in Korea harassing the guy, and anyway I'd really prefer to just get out of here and go home and eat a sandwich made out of decent ingredients or whatever.
What I'm trying to figure out is:
1. Do I need to get any special forms together declaring that I've been fired? I'm not looking for new work in Korea, so I don't think I need a letter of release, but I'm not sure. It just seems like it should be declared somehow.
2. I want to file with the labor board, but I'm not sure if it's best to do it immediately or wait until last months pay is officially more than two weeks late (our payday is the 10th, and it's currently the 18th, though the actual working month was May). I could file for just the severance, but I'm thinking I'd then have to amend my complaint once the May paycheck becomes officially late, and then probably again once the June paycheck comes up. So basically I'm not sure if it's better to file one big complaint later or a smaller one now and then a smaller one later and then another smaller one after that.
3. What sort of paperwork I should get ready for the labor board. I'm thinking I'll probably have to find someone to stand for me in court, but I don't really know how to sign over the right to do that. I'm also not sure if hiring a lawyer to stand for me is really worth it, or if I should just get a friend to present my case for me in court. This is especially important because he'll likely owe us a lot of money that won't technically be due to us until long after we'd have to leave.
4. If there's anything to be done about other, minor breaches of contract that we should roll into our larger complaint (when we moved in our apartment was completely unfurnished, he neglected to start a pension fund or get us health insurance or an ARC for the first four months we were here, we've been working reduced hours lately for less pay basically without a choice).
Anyway, sorry this is so long/ probably a chore to read. I might come back after I've gotten some rest and write something up clarifying this if I feel it needs to be. I also might have to do that just because details might change depending on how my meeting with the owner today goes. It seems a little silly asking these questions when I don't even know the details yet, but I'm just trying to get started since I've got no idea when we'll have to leave.
Basically we're both at a loss for what to do, and figure we should set up some sort of gameplan for how to deal with this situation. Any help would be hugely appreciated. This money was really important to us in terms of going home and starting a life together and now we're basically looking at moving in with our parents instead. We found out from our coteachers last night that he actually has a long and storied history of doing very similar stuff to foreign teachers, which I'd have appreciated them telling us earlier, but they're in the same boat as us so (one of them has like, two months of backpay owed and he fucked up the other's tax information so her father's pension somehow ended up getting erased which is like, spectacular).
We'd really appreciate any advice on where to go from here we're sort of at a loss as to where to start. The guy told me last week (last week!) that the school was fine financially and he'd be getting us our backpay any day now so we are a little caught off guard. |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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One more thing: another issue is that I'm in a smaller city (Chungju) and I've got no idea how administrative things work (do I have to go to the regional capital Cheongju to file certain paperwork or can I do it here? What might it potentially be like hiring an english speaking lawyer who'd probably have to commute 1.5 hours from Seoul?)
Basically I'm looking at a much smaller community and much less local resources that might help me out which is an issue. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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If your boss is telling the truth about there being no money, even a labor board ruling won't do you much good. Certainly not before your visa expires and you have to leave the country. Even if there is money, Korean hagwon owners are particularly adept at giving their money to close relatives to make it look like they have none. I know it sounds shitty, but it might be more worth your time to just cut your losses and run.
If you're gung ho, there's a branch of the Ministry of Employment and Labor in Chungju. It's across the intersection from Emart and down a couple of streets.
Search Naver for 고용노동부 충주지청 |
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Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Your severance isn't past due - it is due when you finish working. So you should be getting one and a half severance payments. |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I've got no faith in the guy. The wacky thing is that the school is actually pretty successful, he's just a mess of a businessman. I honestly can't understand how the school is having so many problems (it's actually two schools with nearly 300 students total) but it legitimately seems like it somehow is (he's been taking out nutty loans, his credit is a mess, books haven't been ordered, he's had to fire other teachers to cut costs etc.).
And thanks for the advice on the Labor Ministry office. Is that different than the labor board? I was planning on handling this with them over the internet/on the phone just because my Korean's awful, but if that's a different office it wouldn't hurt to go down there too. I think I'm also going to inform the Hagwon head office, not that it'll like make a difference. I'll probably tell his wife too, since apparently she actually doesn't know what he's up to and she's a genuinely very nice person. Talking to our coworkers the other day it seemed like he was a solid guy maybe five years ago who has just totally spiraled into constantly lying to everyone constantly, including his wife. That's sort of what's so nuts. We've known this was an issue for a long time and have tried to work it out with him responsibly, but he's just incapable of dealing with it directly so he's lied up until the very last minute to everyone and now we're out on our ass.
And yeah, I guess I have to wait until this paycheck is late to technically report. I knew about the severance not being right owed us then, we just sort of had an informal agreement that he'd start paying it so I forgot it wasn't technically owed me.
Though, I'm not sure, but we technically took a one month break after the first contract where we worked under the table, so I'm not even sure if we're owed the last five months in severance because technically it wasn't continuous.
Also one more thing:
Do I have to make him admit he's firing me? Like should I get him to sign something saying that he's firing me and I'm not quitting? Or is that not even something to worry about?
The way he's basically worded things so far is "I think we should end the contract as soon as possible" which isn't quite "you're fired" it's more "you should probably go away" and I'm not really sure if the distinction would make a difference. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I know exactly which hagwon you're talking about. From what I've heard, they're pretty much on the up and up with regards to administration: pay and the like. The people I know who worked there mostly had trouble getting along with the administration personally. I remember one major disagreement in the past that ended up with an employee hitting someone... |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry to hear about your news. That sucks. But anyone who says "very fun" should not be employed as an English teacher, anyway. |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| Sorry to hear about your news. That sucks. But anyone who says "very fun" should not be employed as an English teacher, anyway. |
does anybody in your life love you |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| I know exactly which hagwon you're talking about. From what I've heard, they're pretty much on the up and up with regards to administration: pay and the like. The people I know who worked there mostly had trouble getting along with the administration personally. I remember one major disagreement in the past that ended up with an employee hitting someone... |
I think i might know who you're talking about.
And we've actually gotten along fine and his wife loves us it's entirely just a money thing and it has been for a long time.
Anyway thanks I'll probably be back around here sometime with updates or questions. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| cobre001 wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| Sorry to hear about your news. That sucks. But anyone who says "very fun" should not be employed as an English teacher, anyway. |
does anybody in your life love you |
Please begin your sentences with a capital letter and complete them with punctuation (in this case a question mark).Try it, it can be very fun. 
Having said that, I hope you get back on your feet soon. Koreans can be dreadful people to work for. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| cobre001 wrote: |
| So, my girlfriend and I got surprise fired from our hagwon today after a year and a half here. Basically the excuse was no money and also MERS is driving all the students away. Also the owner just bought two new yellow vans which I'm sure was very hard on him. |
The purchase of the two vans has nothing to do with your continued employment. That purchase may have been the owner's attempt at attracting more students.
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| We're yet to work out some of the details (he claims he'll get us a plane ticket home, we're not sure when he wants us to actually stop working etc). We're supposed to work that stuff out today. |
In my view (which appears to be shared by a quite a few posters on this site over the years), you are not fired until you have received written notice of termination. The notice should include such details as your end of contract bonus, flight to your home country, etc. Of course the notice should also include the termination date of employment.
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| Also forgive me if this is a little confusing, we went out drinking last night after the news and now it's 7:30 in the morning and I'm pretty braindead. I can feel the words coming out of me like lead, but I thought I should these questions out ASAP so here I am. |
That's your response on this on a worknight, go get drunk?
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| The biggest issue is that he currently owes us a month of backpay (about 1,900,000 each) on top of the severance from our last contract (about 2,100,000 each, this is really old, like from February. The plan with that was that he'd pay us in parts to alleviate the burden, and now its been months and months and we've seen nothing). |
You should have gotten this plan in writing. You'll continue to see nothing. You will always see nothing.
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| Further, we have a bunch of unpaid pension (about 700$ each, though the impression I get is that there's really no way of getting him to pay this other than asking very nicely). |
The way to get him to pay this is to report the issue to the National Pension Service office for the area where the hagweon is located. They will order you to pay your contributions to your employer and will order the employer to turn over your contributions and the employer's matching contributions to the NPS for deposit into your NPS account. They may also levy a fine against your employer--and you.
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| Then, on top of that, he's talking about getting us home as soon as possible, which would be before our regular pay date. In which case we'd likely get our June paycheck after we'd left for home (this is also very likely because, again, the guy owes us back payment and probably couldn't possibly get us all this at once). |
The way I read this is: "I'm going to send you both home and there's no way for you to get me to pay you the money I owe you without taking me to court. Oh, guess what? You cannot take me to court because you will be out of the country."
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So basically:
Old Severance: 2,100,00 each
May: 1,900,00 each
Pension: roughly 700,000 each
Eventually our June paycheck: 1,900,00 each
Anyway, this is a whole lot of money I'm worried about. Part of the issue is that I can't really afford to stick around in Korea harassing the guy, and anyway I'd really prefer to just get out of here and go home and eat a sandwich made out of decent ingredients or whatever. |
Then take the paid airline ticket home and write off the rest.
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What I'm trying to figure out is:
1. Do I need to get any special forms together declaring that I've been fired? I'm not looking for new work in Korea, so I don't think I need a letter of release, but I'm not sure. It just seems like it should be declared somehow. |
If you're planning on leaving Korea, you don't need anything showing you've been fired. Of course, it would be nice to have, but your plane ticket (one way trip) in hand and your signed statement at NPS is what you need to claim that. Oops! The boss hasn't been paying that in--and if you think that's a recent stunt, you're likely mistaken; your NPS account probably has exactly 0 won from your employment with him. What you can do is designate in writing someone to act on your behalf at the NPS office hearings. That peson will need to be someone who is staying in Korea for the duration of the investigation by NPS. The NPS office has a nifty form (all in Korean) for you to make such a designation.
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| 2. I want to file with the labor board, but I'm not sure if it's best to do it immediately or wait until last months pay is officially more than two weeks late (our payday is the 10th, and it's currently the 18th, though the actual working month was May). I could file for just the severance, but I'm thinking I'd then have to amend my complaint once the May paycheck becomes officially late, and then probably again once the June paycheck comes up. So basically I'm not sure if it's better to file one big complaint later or a smaller one now and then a smaller one later and then another smaller one after that. |
Hasn't your boss already withheld some salary from you? You can initiate your claim at the Labor Board office for the area where the hagweon is located. Do this before you leave Korea. At the same time as you initiate the claim, you can designate someone in writing to appear on your behalf for the duration of the investigation. The Labor Board office has a nifty form (all in Korean) for you make such a designation.
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| 3. What sort of paperwork I should get ready for the labor board. I'm thinking I'll probably have to find someone to stand for me in court, but I don't really know how to sign over the right to do that. I'm also not sure if hiring a lawyer to stand for me is really worth it, or if I should just get a friend to present my case for me in court. This is especially important because he'll likely owe us a lot of money that won't technically be due to us until long after we'd have to leave. |
- Your contract
- Photocopies of the following pages of your passport:
- Identification pages
- E-2 visa pages
- Pages with your last exit from and entry to Korea
- Printout from your bank of all payments make to your account from your current employer.
- If you're getting paid in cash, you're screwed. Just write the entire thing off, go home, and wonder why you accepted such a sketchy situation in the first place.
- Written designation for someone to act on your behalf at the Labor Board, etc.
- Complaints filed at Labor Board and NPS. These can actually be filed in English, but you need to have the one for the Labor Board also translated into Korean at your expense.
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| 4. If there's anything to be done about other, minor breaches of contract that we should roll into our larger complaint (when we moved in our apartment was completely unfurnished, he neglected to start a pension fund or get us health insurance or an ARC for the first four months we were here, we've been working reduced hours lately for less pay basically without a choice). |
- The apartment and its condition are solely between you and the employer. The Labor Board and the courts don't care about that.
- Failure to start a pension fund isn't a minor violation of the contract; it's breaking the law. Same goes for the National Health.
- The ARC is your responsibility as the alien resident. Failure to get the thing would be a black mark on your record.
- If your contract has your pay set solely by the number of hours you teach, there's nothing to do about the reduced pay due to reduced hours. If your contract stipulates a standard monthly pay along with overtime pay for extra hours, then you can hit him up at the Labor Board for withholding your salary.
| Quote: |
Anyway, sorry this is so long/ probably a chore to read. I might come back after I've gotten some rest and write something up clarifying this if I feel it needs to be. I also might have to do that just because details might change depending on how my meeting with the owner today goes. It seems a little silly asking these questions when I don't even know the details yet, but I'm just trying to get started since I've got no idea when we'll have to leave.
Basically we're both at a loss for what to do, and figure we should set up some sort of gameplan for how to deal with this situation. Any help would be hugely appreciated. This money was really important to us in terms of going home and starting a life together and now we're basically looking at moving in with our parents instead. We found out from our coteachers last night that he actually has a long and storied history of doing very similar stuff to foreign teachers, which I'd have appreciated them telling us earlier, but they're in the same boat as us so (one of them has like, two months of backpay owed and he fucked up the other's tax information so her father's pension somehow ended up getting erased which is like, spectacular).
We'd really appreciate any advice on where to go from here we're sort of at a loss as to where to start. The guy told me last week (last week!) that the school was fine financially and he'd be getting us our backpay any day now so we are a little caught off guard. |
From here, it looks like you let it go on too long. The boss knew all along what he was doing.
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| One more thing: another issue is that I'm in a smaller city (Chungju) and I've got no idea how administrative things work (do I have to go to the regional capital Cheongju to file certain paperwork or can I do it here? |
You go wherever the Labor Board office and the NPS office for where your hagweon is located. The websites for those outfits have a llst in both Korean and English.
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| What might it potentially be like hiring an english speaking lawyer who'd probably have to commute 1.5 hours from Seoul?) |
In 2006, it was US$300 per hour for such a lawyer. I'd be quite impressed if laywer's fees decreased in the last nine years. You can pretty much forget about hiring a laywer for this as the amount owed you would disappear quite quickly to the attorney.
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| Basically I'm looking at a much smaller community and much less local resources that might help me out which is an issue. |
The NPS and Labor Board are, essentially, the same throughout the country. All you have to really worry about is getting someone who is fluent in Korean and English to work as your trnaslator at the Labor Board.
I'm not sure about Porksta's figuring. I may be incorrect, but I thought the computation for severance pay was based on completed whole years. I'll be happy to be proven wrong on that.
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| Yeah I've got no faith in the guy. The wacky thing is that the school is actually pretty successful, he's just a mess of a businessman. |
I've plenty of faith in the dude. The school is successfull because he is not "a mess of a businessman". What he's doing to you two is pretty good business practice as far as he's concerned: he's saving his school a ton of money--at your expense, but hey, you're leaving the country so he can't care less about you.
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| I honestly can't understand how the school is having so many problems (it's actually two schools with nearly 300 students total) but it legitimately seems like it somehow is (he's been taking out nutty loans, his credit is a mess, books haven't been ordered, he's had to fire other teachers to cut costs etc.). |
It's not having any problems whatsoever. Well, you foreign teachers may be having some serious problems with Immigration when he rats you out to them for teaching somewhere other than permitted by your visa (assuming that you've been teaching at both locations and doing so without Immigration's permission), but that's not his problem--you're leaving the country.
Did you see this part?
[quote]he's had to fire other teachers to cut costs
Guess what?
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| And thanks for the advice on the Labor Ministry office. Is that different than the labor board? |
The Labor Board is an office in the Labor Ministry.
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| I was planning on handling this with them over the internet/on the phone just because my Korean's awful, but if that's a different office it wouldn't hurt to go down there too. |
Unless things have changed drastically recently, you must file in person. There is nobody there to translate for you, though, so you need to provide your own translator for every step.
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| I think I'm also going to inform the Hagwon head office, not that it'll like make a difference. |
That would be a complete waste of time and it can easily backfire on you.
First, the local franchisees are not responsible to the national office. The national office entered into a contract with them to provide a name, certain material, and some services (such as advertising). The national offices do not manage the franchisees.
Second, telling the national office can put you on the wrong side of Korea's libel/slander law. If your current boss wishes to be spiteful, he can initiate legal proceedings against you. Those proceedings will prevent you from leaving the country. That'll be a fun situation, won't it, with no home, no job, and no legal way to get a new job in Korea?
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| I'll probably tell his wife too, since apparently she actually doesn't know what he's up to and she's a genuinely very nice person. |
The very instant you tell her, you'll find out how "genuinely nice" she is when it comes to her family's income being put in jeopardy. Also, you will be on the wrong side of Korea's libel/slander law. See above about the fun situation.
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| Talking to our coworkers the other day it seemed like he was a solid guy maybe five years ago who has just totally spiraled into constantly lying to everyone constantly, including his wife. That's sort of what's so nuts. |
If your coworkers are not other foreign teachers, you made an incredibly bad choice discussing this with them. Right off the bat, their loyalty is not to you; it's to their families. That means that if your complaints might jeopardize the business providing them money to help their families, they might just nod and agree with you, but they sure as green apples will report to the boss.
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| We've known this was an issue for a long time and have tried to work it out with him responsibly, but he's just incapable of dealing with it directly so he's lied up until the very last minute to everyone and now we're out on our ass. |
The first time he lied to you should've been your clue as to the rest of the stunts coming down the pike.
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| And yeah, I guess I have to wait until this paycheck is late to technically report. I knew about the severance not being right owed us then, we just sort of had an informal agreement that he'd start paying it so I forgot it wasn't technically owed me. |
For future reference: There is no such thing as an oral contract in Korea. Now, someone might come on here and say that legally there is; however, there is no way to prove what was said. Get it in writing or it didn't happen.
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| Though, I'm not sure, but we technically took a one month break after the first contract where we worked under the table, so I'm not even sure if we're owed the last five months in severance because technically it wasn't continuous. |
You're still working with the same employer so you should be considered a continuing employee. What do you mean by under the table--did you work without the proper visa or just without a contract?
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Also one more thing:
Do I have to make him admit he's firing me? Like should I get him to sign something saying that he's firing me and I'm not quitting? Or is that not even something to worry about? |
Having written termination would be ideal.
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| The way he's basically worded things so far is "I think we should end the contract as soon as possible" which isn't quite "you're fired" it's more "you should probably go away" and I'm not really sure if the distinction would make a difference. |
It really does make a difference, especially for getting that D-visa mentioned above.
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| And we've actually gotten along fine and his wife loves us it's entirely just a money thing and it has been for a long time. |
Of course she loves you. The boss loves you too! You've been letting him get away without paying you properly.
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| Koreans can be dreadful people to work for. |
Smithington, anyone can be dreadful to work for. No need to make such a broad brush comment. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| cobre001 wrote: |
So basically:
Old Severance: 2,100,00 each
May: 1,900,00 each
Pension: roughly 700,000 each
Eventually our June paycheck: 1,900,00 each
Anyway, this is a whole lot of money I'm worried about. Part of the issue is that I can't really afford to stick around in Korea harassing the guy, and anyway I'd really prefer to just get out of here and go home and eat a sandwich made out of decent ingredients or whatever. |
Then take the paid airline ticket home and write off the rest. |
Hagwon owners rely on people just giving up and going home. Its what most people do, in fact. Which just makes it more difficult for those that come after.
Pursue your case with the labor board to its conclusion. You WILL get paid what is owed to you.
Even if it is only enough to cover your costs by that stage, it is still worth doing to teach these guys a lesson.
Sometimes it seems to be the default norm in Korea to try and scr*w over the other person in all business dealings. There is an old Korean saying "an honest man cannot become rich".
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| The guy told me last week (last week!) that the school was fine financially and he'd be getting us our backpay any day now so we are a little caught off guard. |
From here, it looks like you let it go on too long. The boss knew all along what he was doing. |
Right. As a general rule, if your pay is late, give them a weeks grace. Then give them an ultimatum of a further week. If still no joy, you walk.
If you don't follow this rule you will end up like so many on here who work for free for months and are owed multimillions that they will never see.
Basically in Korea you start documenting everything from the moment you start work for a new employer. Because in my exp 1 in 3 jobs turn sour. |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| cobre001 wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| Sorry to hear about your news. That sucks. But anyone who says "very fun" should not be employed as an English teacher, anyway. |
does anybody in your life love you |
Please begin your sentences with a capital letter and complete them with punctuation (in this case a question mark).Try it, it can be very fun.
Having said that, I hope you get back on your feet soon. Koreans can be dreadful people to work for. |
do you carry on like this day to day, are you a real person
does a loved one ever look you in the eyes and say, "you are so valuable to me i love how you pay attention to grammar and formatting on the internet it adds so much to my life and to the lives of everyone around you."
in this moment do you feel the warmth of the universe around you, do you understand what it is to be part of the human race
or do you just do this shit constantly |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| cobre001 wrote: |
1. Do I need to get any special forms together declaring that I've been fired? I'm not looking for new work in Korea, so I don't think I need a letter of release, but I'm not sure. It just seems like it should be declared somehow.
2. I want to file with the labor board, but I'm not sure if it's best to do it immediately or wait until last months pay is officially more than two weeks late (our payday is the 10th, and it's currently the 18th, though the actual working month was May). I could file for just the severance, but I'm thinking I'd then have to amend my complaint once the May paycheck becomes officially late, and then probably again once the June paycheck comes up. So basically I'm not sure if it's better to file one big complaint later or a smaller one now and then a smaller one later and then another smaller one after that.
3. What sort of paperwork I should get ready for the labor board. I'm thinking I'll probably have to find someone to stand for me in court, but I don't really know how to sign over the right to do that. I'm also not sure if hiring a lawyer to stand for me is really worth it, or if I should just get a friend to present my case for me in court. This is especially important because he'll likely owe us a lot of money that won't technically be due to us until long after we'd have to leave.
4. If there's anything to be done about other, minor breaches of contract that we should roll into our larger complaint (when we moved in our apartment was completely unfurnished, he neglected to start a pension fund or get us health insurance or an ARC for the first four months we were here, we've been working reduced hours lately for less pay basically without a choice).
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1. You will only need it if you intend to find another job or take some legal or administrative action against your employer.
2. Wait until it's been 2 weeks. The LB won't care about the severance since you're still working there (or rather "re-employed").
3. A friend can stand in for you at the LB but not in court. You might get someone assigned but usually that person has to be a lawyer.
4. Of the things that you mentioned, the only one that the LB will care about is that you have been given reduced pay (unless you signed something already that agreed to it). The LB won't care about the other stuff.
The pension office will care that no pension contributions have been made but the LB won't.
Can you elaborate on what happened with the one month between contracts and how the old contact ended? I don't think it will affect your situation but it's hard to say without the details.
When you go to the LB, it's up to you about whether you tell them that you've been fired. If you haven't received any written or documented notice (i.e. an email) then you there's no proof that you've been fired. But filing a complaint with the LB about the firing is only going to get you your job for a full 30 days (or a visa transfer if you had wanted to stay in Korea).
The pension issue is relatively easy to resolve. You pay in your half then the pension office will go after your boss for his half. They'll eventually take it from his bank accounts. The pension office has a lot more power than the LB, and they use it.
If your boss knows that you're leaving, he can stall things which will force you to go to court to get your money. This will be costly for you if you're not in Korea. If you were around then it's just a matter of going in to court since the courts strongly favor employees over employers in labor disputes, especially when the LB has made a recommendation in favor of the employee. You might have to go twice. First time for the court to make their decision. The second time to ask the court to take the money from the business owner.
Even if the place is going out of business, the owner still has assets. The school will have to be sold if it goes out of business. Some money will be transferred to the owner (your boss) so can be recovered that way (even if it's via the repo man).
It's totally legal to fire employees if business is bad. BUT.... employers have to get permission from the Ministry of Employment and Labor first. After they get permission, they have to give you 30 days notice. AFTER they get permission.
Honestly, I would seriously recommend that you transfer your visa to another employer. In your situation, it's likely that you'll get permission from immigration. If you can do a visa transfer, you can easily get a new job. You can even tell the new employers that you'll likely only be around for 4 months. They won't care so much because it costs them practically nothing to hire you and you can start right away. Being in Korea will make it a lot easier to get your money. It shows your current employer that it's not going to be so easy to cheat you and that if he tries he'll get a complaint file at the LB and possibly a court case on record. It means that you can represent yourself in court (which is basically just a matter of showing up). It means that you can visit the LB regularly. It means that you can wait for the pension office to take the pension money from your boss. If you're lucky, you'll have your month in July and can give your new employer a few weeks notice. Even if you don't get paid for a few weeks work in July, you'd be losing a lot less month than what you stand to lose at present if you leave. But I guess it all depends on how much you want to leave. Some people really want to leave when a bad situation occurs and the peace of mind is worth the lost money. Everyone is different. |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| cobre001 wrote: |
1. Do I need to get any special forms together declaring that I've been fired? I'm not looking for new work in Korea, so I don't think I need a letter of release, but I'm not sure. It just seems like it should be declared somehow.
2. I want to file with the labor board, but I'm not sure if it's best to do it immediately or wait until last months pay is officially more than two weeks late (our payday is the 10th, and it's currently the 18th, though the actual working month was May). I could file for just the severance, but I'm thinking I'd then have to amend my complaint once the May paycheck becomes officially late, and then probably again once the June paycheck comes up. So basically I'm not sure if it's better to file one big complaint later or a smaller one now and then a smaller one later and then another smaller one after that.
3. What sort of paperwork I should get ready for the labor board. I'm thinking I'll probably have to find someone to stand for me in court, but I don't really know how to sign over the right to do that. I'm also not sure if hiring a lawyer to stand for me is really worth it, or if I should just get a friend to present my case for me in court. This is especially important because he'll likely owe us a lot of money that won't technically be due to us until long after we'd have to leave.
4. If there's anything to be done about other, minor breaches of contract that we should roll into our larger complaint (when we moved in our apartment was completely unfurnished, he neglected to start a pension fund or get us health insurance or an ARC for the first four months we were here, we've been working reduced hours lately for less pay basically without a choice).
|
1. You will only need it if you intend to find another job or take some legal or administrative action against your employer.
2. Wait until it's been 2 weeks. The LB won't care about the severance since you're still working there (or rather "re-employed").
3. A friend can stand in for you at the LB but not in court. You might get someone assigned but usually that person has to be a lawyer.
4. Of the things that you mentioned, the only one that the LB will care about is that you have been given reduced pay (unless you signed something already that agreed to it). The LB won't care about the other stuff.
The pension office will care that no pension contributions have been made but the LB won't.
Can you elaborate on what happened with the one month between contracts and how the old contact ended? I don't think it will affect your situation but it's hard to say without the details.
When you go to the LB, it's up to you about whether you tell them that you've been fired. If you haven't received any written or documented notice (i.e. an email) then you there's no proof that you've been fired. But filing a complaint with the LB about the firing is only going to get you your job for a full 30 days (or a visa transfer if you had wanted to stay in Korea).
The pension issue is relatively easy to resolve. You pay in your half then the pension office will go after your boss for his half. They'll eventually take it from his bank accounts. The pension office has a lot more power than the LB, and they use it.
If your boss knows that you're leaving, he can stall things which will force you to go to court to get your money. This will be costly for you if you're not in Korea. If you were around then it's just a matter of going in to court since the courts strongly favor employees over employers in labor disputes, especially when the LB has made a recommendation in favor of the employee. You might have to go twice. First time for the court to make their decision. The second time to ask the court to take the money from the business owner.
Even if the place is going out of business, the owner still has assets. The school will have to be sold if it goes out of business. Some money will be transferred to the owner (your boss) so can be recovered that way (even if it's via the repo man).
It's totally legal to fire employees if business is bad. BUT.... employers have to get permission from the Ministry of Employment and Labor first. After they get permission, they have to give you 30 days notice. AFTER they get permission.
Honestly, I would seriously recommend that you transfer your visa to another employer. In your situation, it's likely that you'll get permission from immigration. If you can do a visa transfer, you can easily get a new job. You can even tell the new employers that you'll likely only be around for 4 months. They won't care so much because it costs them practically nothing to hire you and you can start right away. Being in Korea will make it a lot easier to get your money. It shows your current employer that it's not going to be so easy to cheat you and that if he tries he'll get a complaint file at the LB and possibly a court case on record. It means that you can represent yourself in court (which is basically just a matter of showing up). It means that you can visit the LB regularly. It means that you can wait for the pension office to take the pension money from your boss. If you're lucky, you'll have your month in July and can give your new employer a few weeks notice. Even if you don't get paid for a few weeks work in July, you'd be losing a lot less month than what you stand to lose at present if you leave. But I guess it all depends on how much you want to leave. Some people really want to leave when a bad situation occurs and the peace of mind is worth the lost money. Everyone is different. |
yeah this is really heplful.
basically what happened with that one month period is that we renewed, and when we did he failed to get our paperwork done for a few weeks. so for one month we were probably working off visa, though even that I'm not totally sure about. it's a bad situation but we're very short on paperwork to even know that for sure. we finished our first contract on January 28, and didn't actually get a new one until maybe March 5 or so. He just paid us out of pocket.
and the problem with the pension is that we already paid out half to him, but he basically pocketed it and never deposited it in our account. as of now there's about $670 in the account (I think April through July and then part of September) but the rest of it he just kept. I get the impression from talking to him though that paying off the pension is the only thing he's really worried about, so I do think that will come through somehow. he mentioned that the pension board has been harassing him already.
and yeah I am torn about sticking around and fighting for the money or just getting out. part of me can't deal with the stress anymore and part of me wants to stick it to the guy. anyway it's something I've been talking about with my gf, I'm not sure what we'll decide on.
thanks though! I appreciate it. |
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