Korean Job Discussion Forums

[PedanticGiraffe]

Okay, so, recently, the crazy idea of moving to Korea to teach English has jumped into my head. When I saw the amount of money on offer compared with the standards trade-off, I knew there had to be a catch.

I’ve spent the last few days perusing the threads on the forum and my opinion has been smashed from one end to another like I’m caught in a serious game of head tennis.

I’ve been advised to take the opinions on here with a pinch of salt for numerous reasons, ranging from “entitlement” to the more logical “angry people are the most vocal,” but there’s no smoke without fire, right? Some of the issues described on the forum are really quite frightening, whilst others reek a bit of “kid fresh out of uni/college who doesn’t know that work means actually working hard.”

So, I’m here to ask for the opinions of more experienced teachers, based on my current circumstances.

My situation:

TEFL in Europe is such a different ball game to TEFL in Asia, from what I can see. Here in Europe, you’re lucky if you make enough to get by. I dreamed of living in Italy, teaching English and enjoying the lush history and environment of the country, whilst on a modest wage.

However, the costs of living and the overall terrible pay of European TEFL teachers threw that idea straight out of the window. I have a sibling who also teaches in Europe, and he is slowly being pushed out of the city by how expensive it is, combined with how little you get paid in Europe. He is very deep into the TEFL game as well, with a CELTA to his name and over half a decade’s worth of experience.

Currently, I teach in Prague, where the pay is ludicrously low, but so are the living costs. It balances out somewhat. Here, my students are really nice, and the company is very resourceful. There’s a lot of independence and a flexible schedule… but you don’t half pay for that crap.

You have to design the courses yourself, and, of course, you don’t get paid for that. You have to travel between companies, and it can take like forty minutes to travel to each lesson which… of course, you don’t get paid for. There’s also training which, surprise surprise, you don’t get paid for. The tax system shafts you at 15% and you have to work a huge amount of hours (even more when you consider all the unpaid time doing prep and travelling).

So yes, TEFL in Europe is in a really bad place right now, so when I look at people complaining about a drop from ludicrous pay to somewhat ridiculous pay (comparatively) I can’t really connect with it.

The complaints:

Now, jumping back to “entitlement”. I think a lot of complaints on here are very valid, but when people say they hate their school because they want them to attend get-togethers or they “ask” them to substitute a few classes with no overtime pay, that just seems like a normal salary-based job for me. Note: Never become an accountant.

When people speak of intrusive bosses, how intrusive are they really? I know not everyone takes criticism easily, and we British tend to have a bit of a stiff upper lip attitude to it. I’ve not much issue with someone saying I should be doing it one way, even if I think otherwise. I’ve not been in the game long enough to think my methods are 100% sound and at the end of the day, they’re paying me.

My goals:

I’m looking to actually work in Korea, and by that, I mean 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, be it 9-5 or 2-10 or whatever. I’m mostly looking to really jump into a brand new culture and experience it from the very heart, be it just for a year or maybe more. I’m not in it for mega bucks, or to addle much brass. I want to learn a bit of the language, experience the culture, and live comfortably for my stay.

So yeah, there’s my really boring life in one long essay, but I think it’s important for anyone giving advice to actually get an honest look at what I’m willing to handle, etc.

I’m not willing to put up with crap like hagwans ripping off teachers and putting them in crappy classrooms for living, or ones where they outright don’t pay you. I know those complaints crop up a fair bit, but I’m hoping they’re rare outside of the small-time companies.

So given all this information, is Korea really such a bad place to work for me? Will I actually enjoy myself or will I quickly join the ranks of the jaded veterans?

TL;DR – Europe is crap for TEFL and I’m thinking about going to Asia. See italics paragraph; is it really such a bad idea given my current situation?

[tiger fancini]

A lot of what you get out of working in Korea depends entirely on what you are willing to put into it. Decide where you want to work, what kind of students you want to teach and what kind of organisation you want to work for. Do your research and be smart when looking for work - but then you probably know all this as you're already experienced.

Financially you might be pulling in more disposable cash, but things are not as cheap here as they used to be. If you're living in a nice part of Seoul, you'll be paying higher prices for stuff like meals at restaurants, coffee shop treats, taxis, non-Korean food and so on. These things can all add up very quickly.

As far as 'jaded veterans' go, I basically view them as people who were not able (for some reason) to leave when their time was up. Teachers here have a wide range of expiry dates, ranging from one year to more than twenty years. If you're happy here - which is totally possible, despite what you might read and hear - there's no reason why you can't have a good life here. A willingness to adapt and accept that some things are not done the way you might expect them to be done are crucial.

[edwardcatflap]

It depends what your long term goals are, how old you are, what qualifications you have and what you want to get etc...

[PedanticGiraffe]

I'm currently on 400kc for a 90 minute lesson, which is $16. It has similar living costs to Korea, except it's quite a bit cheaper in the drinks department (like $1-2 for a beer).

On top of that, you get taxed 15% and spend about an hour going to and from each lesson. Oh, and preparation, but that's unnecessary for many classes as they more or less become about conversation and nothing less.

It's great for if you're hungover, tired or forgot to do any unpaid preparation, but I personally can't shake off the feeling that they are literally paying me to just have a chat with them and correct their grammar as they go. There's no real work vibe, which leads to slipping into nasty, lazy habits.

You would have to work 157.5 official hours a month to get $1.7k, which is then taxed at 15%, so it's more like $1450.

In the rest of Europe, it's a case of you getting paid reasonably well for each hour, but there's just a complete lack of demand out there really. 20 hours a week, raking in $1.1k a month isn't going to cut it if you want to live in a place like Barcelona or Rome.

I looked at a nice job in Genoa which paid about $1.5k a month for a low amount of hours, and after running it by a budget, I realised that in order to survive (living in a warm, safe environment with utilities, proper food, drink, etc), I would have to either try and do some serious work on the side (very difficult to find in Europe) or regard eating out as a thing reserved for once every month or two, and a night out being fortnightly. That kind of required penny-pinching really ruins a place for you.

But as for my goals. Well, I'm in my early twenties, BSc, TEFL and almost a year's teaching experience, which I guess makes me a bog-standard entry level teacher. I just want to spend a year living comfortably in Korea, experiencing a new culture, and putting a bit of discipline in my life. I want to kill the remnants of the lazy student side of me, and doing a full-time, somewhat demanding (if I take into account the stories of the hogwan owners) job which I actually enjoy (I couldn't stop smiling when one student of mine made the leap from Upper Intermediate to Advanced. We shared a really emotional, manly handshake when he thanked me personally for it all).

I'm leaving it open how long I would stay though. I'm interested in the language, and from what I have found, most EFL teachers tend to pick up a special someone on the way.

I've looked at all the stuff about how hogwans are racist, ageist, sexist, etc, and as bad as that is, and as much as I wish it were different for the sake of social progression... it really doesn't have much of an effect on me, bar maybe the sexism. I'm male, tall, slim, sort-of blonde haired (mousy brown, goes light in the sun).

On the topic of hagwans though. What is the chance of getting a real craphole with one of them? I don't mean one where the boss is a bit of a dick or he makes you work hard, but where he's wiping his arse with your contract, and withholding pay.

My first choice is EPIK for the stability, and the application process for March will start soon. I'm guessing they're a whole lot better, but not as well paid?

[edwardcatflap]

[PedanticGiraffe]

[PRagic]

You can get permanent residency here in Korea even without having a Korean spouse. Might take you some time to put the points together, but you can get it done if you set your mind to it. A friend of mine just did it, in fact.

I'd say pepper every job board with your CV and contact every recruiter you can find. DON'T use just one, or worry about whether they're 'good' or 'bad'.

Get all your documents in order, then let them know what age group you'd like to teach, where you'd like to work, and when you can start.

If you already have your MA, it might not be a bad idea to do a couple of years in China at a university. I believe you need two years of university experience here now to qualify for a university lecturer position.

Best of luck to you.

[ttompatz]

OP:

Jobs in Korea are what they are. For most of them you will get the salary you contract for and the days off as expected.

Most (not all) complainers do suffer from being abroad for the 1st time, a false sense of entitlement (usually as recent grads) and often as previously only being exposed to "hourly" work rather than salaried positions.

There are a fair few with legitimate complaints for labor law violations. These are the exception but they are there.

The job here is different from Europe. Most of the work here (I'd guess upward of 80%) is dealing with kids (k-9).

You can save money here (depending on your lifestyle) and send 25-40% of your salary home without any squeeze on your lifestyle but it is not like the heyday of a decade ago.

All of that said, the real growth is taking place in China and even with the current economic corrections the growth is still there and so are the money making options for those with a degree, a TEFL cert and 2+ years of classroom experience.

If you qualify for an E2 then jump in (but be aware that the paperwork (authentications, apostilles, and background checks) will be difficult if you are not in or convenient to your home country).

You have nothing to lose and an adventure to gain.

.

[PedanticGiraffe]

Thanks all. Any tips on where to easily find the recruiters? Admittedly, I've just been using the TEFL website which has a whopping two South Korea recruiters on there.

Sadly, I think any kind of MA would be a long way off. I'd need to do a post-graduate English degree, I think (which I'm considering), as my degree is in Economics and Maths (I know right? Completely different, but it's so damn boring).

I'm not really in it for the money. My parents and I call my year in Prague as my "working gap year", so my year in Korea would be... an extended working gap year, to a degree.

I've never actually taught kids, I have to say, but I've always been good working with them. I'm going to avoid the baby-sitting jobs and focus on actual classroom kids though.

[kpjf]

[JohnML]

Nobody earns that much in Hong Kong teaching English, you might have like the odd extremely lucky person but then you get the extremely odd and lucky expat earning 5 times more than even that. 2 mill a month in Korea is a standard wage, you might be lucky and get 3 million. Comparatively the living is pretty good compared to most TEFL countries, not the western world though. You will make a living off of it not a life in the sense you can have either savings or enough to treat yourself - rarely both.

[edwardcatflap]

[ttompatz]

[JohnML]

[motiontodismiss]