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Was forming the EU a mistake?
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Plain Meaning



Joined: 18 Oct 2014

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swartz wrote:
The centralization of the *monetary/financial system* is the issue. Once that is established, controlling anything else of interest can be accomplished with relative ease. The EU is not simply “governmental centralization” – whatever the perpetually misinformed Plain Meaning thinks he means by that.


Its a direct reference to Alexis De Tocqueville.
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Swartz



Joined: 19 Dec 2014

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, pal. Obscure drops and subsequent clarifications epitomize intellectual talent. We’ve all been impressed by your output here on Dave’s over the many years.

Back to the point, one I should have also made clearer: To understand the EU, you must understand the function of the ECB; to understand the function of the ECB, you must understand the role of Mario Draghi; to understand the role of Mario Draghi, you must understand the role of his former employer, Goldman Sachs (The Vampire Squid). To understand the role the Vampire Squid plays in shaping the world you live in – your reality – you must be willing to accept that reality as you know it may be false.

“The first thing you need to know about Goldman Sachs is that it's everywhere. The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money”
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Plain Meaning



Joined: 18 Oct 2014

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swartz wrote:
Of course, pal. Obscure drops and subsequent clarifications epitomize intellectual talent. We’ve all been impressed by your output here on Dave’s over the many years.


You asked the question, and I simply answered. Say what you want about the "obscure drop," but its responsive and relevant to an objection (that someone else raised).

And hey!

At least its not the same old tired crap.
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Fallacy



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a direct quote from journalist Matt Taibbi for Rolling Stone magazine in 2009. Another example of obscure drops and subsequent clarifications epitomizing intellectual talent? As for whether we "must be willing to accept that reality as you know it may be false" or not, (reaches for a tab of LSD) go ahead. We are ready for the blue/red pill moment. Keep telling us how it is, Black Morpheus.
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Swartz



Joined: 19 Dec 2014

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallacy wrote:
That is a direct quote from journalist Matt Taibbi for Rolling Stone magazine in 2009. Another example of obscure drops and subsequent clarifications epitomizing intellectual talent? As for whether we "must be willing to accept that reality as you know it may be false" or not, (reaches for a tab of LSD) go ahead. We are ready for the blue/red pill moment. Keep telling us how it is, Black Morpheus.


Living a low-information existence often leads one to overestimate their own comedic self-worth. That appears to be the case here. The ability to use google is a solid first step though.
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Swartz



Joined: 19 Dec 2014

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plain Meaning wrote:
At least its not the same old tired crap.


I'll give you that.

Well, Marxists.org ... maybe not, Marxism is very directly the problem here.
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Fallacy



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:09 am    Post subject: RE: Was forming the EU a mistake? Reply with quote

Black wrote:
Living a low-information existence often leads one to overestimate their own comedic self-worth.
This. Exactly. Or the inverse: Not Living a high-information existence seldom leads many to underestimate others' comedic social-worth. I second Black. I read the postings, took the pills, drank the Cool-Aid, and now I am a believer, following the wisdom of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em," by tuning in, turning on, and dropping out. Now I just hope I can get past the hazing rituals of the EU doomsday cult membership! The apocalyptic end-of-world parties must be amazing. Wish me luck. Until then, on the question of "Was forming the EU a mistake?" No.
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Fallacy



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:16 pm    Post subject: RE: Was forming the EU a mistake? Reply with quote

Answer by Wichard Woyke, a political scientist who taught European politics at the University of Münster and is considered to be one of Germany's premier experts on international politics, to a question during an interview with Deutsche Welle: "Is Schengen becoming a threat to the European Union simply because of the large numbers of people that are freely moving?"
Quote:
"No, I don't think so. Just the opposite: The very thing that Schengen stands for - freedom of movement - is a huge advantage. You can cross borders without being checked from Malaga up to the North Pole. Schengen is Europe's greatest achievement, and this view is also shared among the countries that have joined the bloc since 2004. People will do everything they can to protect this achievement. I don't think it's possible that it could end up tearing the EU apart."
There you have it. "Greatest achievement," yet a quarter of nations having suspended it is no threat to "tearing the EU apart."

Last edited by Fallacy on Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Plain Meaning



Joined: 18 Oct 2014

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Was forming the EU a mistake? Reply with quote

Fallacy wrote:
Answer by Wichard Woyke, a political scientist who taught European politics at the University of Münster and is considered to be one of Germany's premier experts on international politics, to a question during an interview with Deutche Welle: "Is Schengen becoming a threat to the European Union simply because of the large numbers of people that are freely moving?"
Quote:
"No, I don't think so. Just the opposite: The very thing that Schengen stands for - freedom of movement - is a huge advantage. You can cross borders without being checked from Malaga up to the North Pole. Schengen is Europe's greatest achievement, and this view is also shared among the countries that have joined the bloc since 2004. People will do everything they can to protect this achievement. I don't think it's possible that it could end up tearing the EU apart."
There you have it. "Greatest achievement," yet a quarter of nations having suspended it is no threat to "tearing the EU apart."


Yes, Woyke sounds like a politician more than a political scientist here.
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wonkavite62



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: Jeollanamdo, South Korea.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:38 am    Post subject: About The EU Reply with quote

Well, this issue about whether the EU is a good idea is something some people in the U.K. felt strongly enough about to form their own party-UKIP or the United Kingdom Independence Party, led by Mr. Nigel Farage.
But my worry is not the E.U. per se. It's THIS the Euro. When I searched the Euro on YouTube, I found a video by a US professor explaining why the single currency was flawed and bound to fail. I will try to find the video for you.
I used to live in Spain. When I was a student at the University of Granada, Spain, in 1998, rent in Granada could be shockingly cheap. Nine years later it was quite expensive. This was starting to happen when I taught in Madrid. My rent was low, but only because the room itself was a windowless box. I realised that speculators were buying property and trying to get rents and mortgages as high as possible. People were encouraged to buy unaffordable houses. I used to asked how the average person was going to afford this in a country where the average salary was still lower than in northern Europe.
The prices of other things shot up. A bottle of San Miguel ber was €3, on Jan. 1 2002, and the same beer in 2005 in the same pub was €7!
As a consequence of the euro German banks were able to lend money and encourage speculation. But when crisis hit in 2008, Spain was
incapable of devaluing the Euro Germany, on the other hand, was sitting pretty.
I think some European ideas, such as the Social Chapter, and free movement, carry certain benefits. But when politicians set up something big, like the Euro, they need to be able to fix it if something goes wrong. Otherwise leave things as they are.
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chellovek



Joined: 29 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tophatcat wrote:
Neil wrote:
If you can't have a drink without throwing a tantrum on the internet then maybe, just maybe it's time to think about quitting the booze before it becomes even more of a problem for you and your family.

Just a thought.




Surprisingly, chellovek has posted apologies several times in the past admitting he had been drinking during some of his replies.


It's the only time that this dross is worth engaging with. It's like tugging on a pet's tail when you get in at 2am. The "throwing a tantrum" is just me antagonising the frankly limited intellects (if any of you are not limited, you'll know who you are) who frequent this board.

Although in terms of apologies, maybe you're thinking of somebody else. Unless I apologised one time 5 years ago.


Last edited by chellovek on Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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chellovek



Joined: 29 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The EU isn't going to crumble or be dissolved.

I'm not entirely sure what you lot are envisioning when you spout this crap.

"Gadzooks, there's a bit of trouble. Let's break up the largest trading bloc in the world" with resulting massive economic and regulatory confusion (billions of $ lost in the process, trade agreements with wide swathes of the world rendered null in a stroke)

Things will go on as ever- making an imperfect hand of an imperfect reality. What has imperfectly been achieved is worth too much $$$ to be so casually tossed away.
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Neil



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a few beers, I enjoy a nice curry, maybe going home to watch a spot of netflix before nodding off. Logging onto the internet and throwing a toddler like strop at a load of strangers who dare to disagree with me is the furthest thing from my mind.

In ten years when you're a piss stained tramp screaming at the other vagrants in the park how they are all of 'limited intellect' remember you were given some decent advice once.

On topic I see the Portuguese are the latest to be rudely informed by the French and Germans that democracy isn't something they should worry their pretty little heads about.
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chellovek



Joined: 29 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neil wrote:
After a few beers, I enjoy a nice curry, maybe going home to watch a spot of netflix before nodding off. Logging onto the internet and throwing a toddler like strop at a load of strangers who dare to disagree with me is the furthest thing from my mind.

In ten years when you're a piss stained tramp screaming at the other vagrants in the park how they are all of 'limited intellect' remember you were given some decent advice once.

On topic I see the Portuguese are the latest to be rudely informed by the French and Germans that democracy isn't something they should worry their pretty little heads about.


Rolling Eyes

Antagonising internet idiots is not throwing a strop, it is just antagonising internet idiots...like you it would seem. Exaggerated expression is part of the antagonising, otherwise it wouldn't be any fun.

Yeah my outrageous drinking once a week or so will end up with me being a piss-stained tramp in a park. smh.

The difference between you and me is that you seem to be taking this seriously, whereas I am just playing with you.

Whilst we are dealing in the cod-life coaching that you like dealing out- when you're in the hospital with hypertension due to your uptight, dull, and overly literal worldview, raging at occasional drinkers for being future piss-stained tramps, I hope you have an internet connection so you can keep doling out your pearls.

So yeah, if it cheers you up, call me whatever. You need it, so I'll be indulgent. It still doesn't change the frankly poor quality of discussion on this forum, which is essentially my basic point and what I am parodying (see previous mention of "exaggerated expression").

Edit- unless of course you're also just casually trying to rile someone up on the internet, which in this case would be quite "meta" and I would doff my hat.
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