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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:23 am Post subject: Public school directive: more work for no additional payment |
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New memo from the higher ups: Every day a foreigner teacher is not on official vacation (which is only 8 days in the summer and 10 days in the winter) they need to be teaching at least 22 class hours per week.
That's really short notice to plan four weeks of classes.
Before it was just winter camps, a week or two or three or sometimes even zero, which I believe were capped at 20 teaching hours per week.
To have every single day filled with teaching classes is a significant change from that.
Korean teachers of course go on paid vacation during this time, and NETs are unpaid for their additional work.
Most of the students don't want their vacation time cut into, but are forced to go by their parent(s). All grades together (to ensure there will be large class sizes for the duration) means vastly different skill levels all lumped together. The most common scenario would be elementary school (as so many middle and high schools no longer have a native English teacher due to budget cuts). Grades 3, 4, 5, and 6 at once means there will be some students who don't know English at all (which are the most likely to behave badly) along with others who can speak in complete sentences. That's a nightmare in the making.
Seems like public school jobs are going downhill little by little. They are nowhere near as good as they used to be.
| Gamecock wrote: |
I was in Korea from 2003-2008. For 3 of those 5 years, I had a sweet public school job with 10 weeks of paid vacation and no desk warming. The exchange rate for American dollars was much better.
The public schools have slowly eradicated the benefits which set them apart from the crappy hogwan jobs. The hogwan jobs are still bad, and even the best ones only offer a handful of vacation days. Even many universities want you to teach kiddie camps, which was never the case when i first came to Korea. Overall, the competition is fierce for mediocre jobs. It's a an employer's market and more and more people are getting screwed over...because they can get away with it now.
Forget the issues with NK. It will probably be a whole lot of nothing, as usual. If I were a newbie, I wouldn't come now. The money and working conditions are not high enough now to offset the quality of life you'll be living. |
It's good for teachers to be able to rest and recharge their batteries, or at the very least have time to plan for the upcoming semester.
Teachers in the United States work 180 days per year while are off 185 days. That means more days not working than working. For expats working in Korean public schools it's becoming more and more of a complete year long working deal with no reprieve. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Public school directive: more work for no additional pay |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Teachers in the United States work 180 days per year while are off 185 days. That means more days not working than working. For expats working in Korean public schools it's becoming more and more of a complete year long working deal with no reprieve. |
Expat teachers in public schools in Korea get 134 days off work in a calendar year (assuming only 18 days annual leave, weekends off and national holidays).
The reality, even still, unless you are in Seoul, is closer to 150-160.
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:06 am Post subject: |
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The provinces, and even the counties and cities within a given province, differ in this regard; what is "the directive" in one place may not be in another. "Mandatory" 22 hours of classes a week during vacation is certainly not "the directive" in my area (indeed, they are not even "the directive" during the school year, though it's obviously encouraged). Many schools would find it totally impossible to pull in enough students for enough time to run 22 hours of classes per week over vacation anyway, even if they were "required" to do so. That said, your school has always had the right to ask you to work up to 22 hours a week during vacation, excepting of course during your official leave time. Yes, the general trend is towards encouraging more active use of English teachers for the benefit of students, but this isn't a strict change in contract terms. Job creep is problematic, but this isn't really job creep; it isn't more classes for "no pay," it's being asked to do classes which you were already being paid to do.
Ultimately, as educators our jobs revolve around providing benefit to our students. Any of us would take issue with the benefits stipulated in our contracts not being provided, and rightly so. Conversely, it is fair to expect us to abide by the terms of our contracts. Of course it would be nice to have that time available for other things, and I expect many teachers will continue to have that time available for other things, but camps and supplementary classes are not some sort of violation, they are an attempt by our respective offices of education to do what is best for our students while remaining entirely within the terms of our contracts. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Many schools would find it totally impossible to pull in enough students for enough time to run 22 hours of classes per week over vacation anyway, even if they were "required" to do so. |
Doubtful. How many students total are there in your school? I find it unlikely a parent of at least one wouldn't want free English classes for 4-5 hours a day. All the school has to do is send out an invitation letter to the parents (or give the students a paper to take home to their parents). If no one shows, then an effort was made, but students will come, I can almost guarantee it. Hagwons are expensive. Free is better for parents. Before, the schools probably hadn't thought to do this / were too lazy to, but now that they are being told they have to by the ministry of education, they are. But I wonder if there are some handlers who get a message to make sure the NET is doing 22 teaching hours throughout vacation and just ignore it. (Because it's too much work to make the letters and forms or something like that.) And saying, "Surprise! You need to teach supplementary classes throughout the entire vacation outside of ten days" isn't very nice...because sufficient warning was not given to prepare, but you're right- it's not a contract violation for them to say so. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:18 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with ttompatz and fox on this.
The public (tax payers) should be getting something in return for their money. Follow the contract and be happy. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Many schools would find it totally impossible to pull in enough students for enough time to run 22 hours of classes per week over vacation anyway, even if they were "required" to do so. |
Doubtful. How many students total are there in your school. I find it unlikely a parents of at least one wouldn't want free English classes for 4-5 hours a day everyday. |
There are several hundred students at my school. But I didn't say my school, did I? I said many schools. Plenty of schools have 50 or fewer students, and some barely rise into the double digits. Such small schools also frequently host students who are less motivated, and parents who are more indifferent, precisely because they were the parents who were unwilling to move in order to send their children to bigger, more competitive schools. This is common in rural areas.
| World Traveler wrote: |
| And saying, "Surprise! You need to teach supplementary classes throughout the entire vacation outside of ten days" isn't very nice...because sufficient warning was not given to prepare... |
Well, I certainly agree that the propensity for last-minute decisions and plans is a vexing point in Korean culture. If nothing else, giving notice further in advance, both in terms of the number of classes and in terms of the attendees, would be conducive to a better quality of education. I've spoken to Koreans about it, and they generally agree, but none feel positioned to do much about it, so the system stays in place. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| The public (tax payers) should be getting something in return for their money. |
As universities are funded by tax payer money, perhaps you think vacation time should shrink there as well. Why not have free English classes for students who want them during breaks? And/or kiddie classes. No extra payment for the NET though. He is simply going to serve the community. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| The public (tax payers) should be getting something in return for their money. |
As universities are funded by tax payer money, perhaps you think vacation time should shrink there as well. Why not have free English classes for students who want them during breaks? And/or kiddie classes. No extra payment for the NET though. He is simply going to serve the community. |
World Traveler = GENO sock. That's a fact. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Not the same person, man. It's evident from our writing styles.
As you have been a d-bag for a while, I could call you a sock of another d-bag, but I won't. Why? I don't think there are (m)any socks posting on here. It's a pain in the @$$ to make an account. One signs up with their real name, address, and e-mail and has to wait to be approved. The IP is checked as far as I know. So yeah, don't go around claiming people are socks when they talk about deteriorating conditions. A lot have stated that...more than the deniers in fact. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Not the same person, man. It's evident from our writing styles.
As you have been a d-bag for a while, I could call you a sock of another d-bag, but I won't. Why? I don't think there are (m)any socks posting on here. It's a pain in the @$$ to make an account. One signs up with their real name, address, and e-mail and has to wait to be approved. The IP is checked as far as I know. So yeah, don't go around claiming people are socks when they talk about deteriorating conditions. A lot have stated that...more than the deniers in fact. |
I apologize for calling you a sock. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Public school directive: more work for no additional pay |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Teachers in the United States work 180 days per year while are off 185 days. That means more days not working than working. For expats working in Korean public schools it's becoming more and more of a complete year long working deal with no reprieve. |
Expat teachers in public schools in Korea get 134 days off work in a calendar year (assuming only 18 days annual leave, weekends off and national holidays).
The reality, even still, unless you are in Seoul, is closer to 150-160.
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Not really. I've been out in the provinces forever and there's a huge clamp down on this here too. 18 days and one week for renewal is becoming only that. This summer there will be camps the rest of the time going to other schools if necessary. The 22 hours hasn't been set in stone however, but that could change. I often had something like 15 hours for 2 or 3 weeks and half or partial days with some other "desk warming" days. But, taking extra time off, even without pay, is being shot down and the emphasis is on being "busy". There is a lot of pressure to cut our positions. I really do miss the extra time off and am tempted to hop over to China once I get my 10 years in to qualify for the Korean pension plan money when I'm old.
Then again, this could be a "now" clampdown the lightens up as time goes on. Who knows? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
The provinces, and even the counties and cities within a given province, differ in this regard; what is "the directive" in one place may not be in another. "Mandatory" 22 hours of classes a week during vacation is certainly not "the directive" in my area (indeed, they are not even "the directive" during the school year, though it's obviously encouraged). Many schools would find it totally impossible to pull in enough students for enough time to run 22 hours of classes per week over vacation anyway, even if they were "required" to do so. That said, your school has always had the right to ask you to work up to 22 hours a week during vacation, excepting of course during your official leave time. Yes, the general trend is towards encouraging more active use of English teachers for the benefit of students, but this isn't a strict change in contract terms. Job creep is problematic, but this isn't really job creep; it isn't more classes for "no pay," it's being asked to do classes which you were already being paid to do.
Ultimately, as educators our jobs revolve around providing benefit to our students. Any of us would take issue with the benefits stipulated in our contracts not being provided, and rightly so. Conversely, it is fair to expect us to abide by the terms of our contracts. Of course it would be nice to have that time available for other things, and I expect many teachers will continue to have that time available for other things, but camps and supplementary classes are not some sort of violation, they are an attempt by our respective offices of education to do what is best for our students while remaining entirely within the terms of our contracts. |
No if they were serious about, they'd have parents classes and time spent at the education office discussing teaching strategies. I had a rural supervisor who was a real @$$hat this way. I stuck it out for 6 months with this new boss before I transferred to a bigger city to get away from the guy. He also screamed like an old ajossi and we were his juniors and suppose to take it because he was in a high position or so his old fashioned thinking went at the time. He was extreme about wanting that 22 hours and only the 18 days off and we had to take them when he wanted us to.
This could be what happens here or maybe just a momentary thing that goes away gradually over time. Hard to say. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
No if they were serious about, they'd have parents classes and time spent at the education office discussing teaching strategies. |
Counting time spent discussing teaching strategies as "teaching hours" sounds like a nice compromise which could have real benefits from a long term perspective, I like that idea a lot. Likewise, if parents actually want to learn English, a class for parents could be profitable. These don't seem like bad ideas, though I can understand why teachers might prefer to use their time more autonomously. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
Not the same person, man. It's evident from our writing styles.
As you have been a d-bag for a while, I could call you a sock of another d-bag, but I won't. Why? I don't think there are (m)any socks posting on here. It's a pain in the @$$ to make an account. One signs up with their real name, address, and e-mail and has to wait to be approved. The IP is checked as far as I know. So yeah, don't go around claiming people are socks when they talk about deteriorating conditions. A lot have stated that...more than the deniers in fact. |
I apologize for calling you a sock. |
There are definitely socks on here. I saw one guy post under one account, then delete the post, and then provide the same post under a different name and account.
Its a pain to create an account, but its a message board, not a background check.
I doubt WT is GENO, though. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| The public (tax payers) should be getting something in return for their money. |
As universities are funded by tax payer money, perhaps you think vacation time should shrink there as well. Why not have free English classes for students who want them during breaks? And/or kiddie classes. No extra payment for the NET though. He is simply going to serve the community. |
That is exactly what happens at Public Universities. Teachers at many of them work vacations with no extra pay precisely because they are public. |
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