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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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 Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:33 pm Post subject: Britain will NOT Remain in the EU AFTER ALL |
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The Brexit vote is about immigration
I chose the most left-wing article I could find (outside of Salon).
After rhetoric from the Leave camp, Breaking Point!, resulted in a "Britain First" proponent assassinating Jo Cox, the silent majority is more afraid of turning to the violence and political chaos of the US than turning away from the EU. Perhaps just as importantly, some UK voters will chose to reward Scotland for their own Remain vote, as it seems likely that Scotland will intensify independence efforts of the United Kingdom leaves the EU.
We are getting through it this time. The proto-fascists and xenophobes are having their moment, but it will expire with the Remain vote and the election of Hillary Clinton as President.
[Editted to reflect egg on me face alongside me Brexit]
Last edited by Plain Meaning on Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The proto-fascists and xenophobes |
buzzwords...noting more.
So, what is fascist and xenophobic about wanting to keep, or restore, national sovereignty and not be held accountable to a corrupt and damaging organization as the EU? What is fascist and xenophobic about wanting to protect ones national culture and not have it overrun by the EU's forced immigration plans?
You may be right on the outcome....but, I would like to see Britain take back its country. |
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Swartz
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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One must remember that Kuros' opinions are based around emotion. This individual is representative of a feminized male mentality, which contributes to why he is why he is so easily manipulated by TPTB. That he would make a pro-remain post should come as no surprise because this individual is a pawn of the establishment as a result of his personal weaknesses. That is why Kuros is not someone who should be taken seriously; he is a mentally and emotionally unstable person who is best viewed as an intellectual fraud.
Now, to the substance. Even if Brits vote leave, they'll probably have a slim chance of actually getting out. There are just too many people with too much power who stand to benefit from them staying in. This is a referendum on immigration, yes, but it is primarily a referendum on the current paradigm of power within the West.
It's not about left and right anymore, forget about that. This is about nationalism and sovereignty vs. internationalism/globalism. London will go down either way because of the demographic reality there, but there's a slim chance that a vote for leave will provide the Brits with a sliver of hope for the future. If you're a White person with an ounce of sanity, there's no position to back but leave.
Lastly, anyone who trots out words like 'fascism,' 'xenophobia,' and 'racism' are simply not people who are capable of thinking for themselves; they are adopting the language of elite fear-mongers and their opinions should be rejected outright. Those words don't mean anything anymore. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Trueblue,
The fascist-xenophobic stuff was not directed at you nor was it made with you in mind, so you can ignore it. You are right, it is not exactly the height of discourse. But this forum is not exactly a professional forum anymore ... if it ever was.
| trueblue wrote: |
You may be right on the outcome....but, I would like to see Britain take back its country. |
If UK loses Scotland, that would be the furthest thing from "taking back the country." The phrase "take back the country" would be turned into an even emptier platitude than the terms 'fascists' or 'xenophobes.'
I believe that Cameron limited the refugee influx to 25,000. He did a good job balancing commitments to the EU while serving his own people. In comparison to Germany, 25,000 is just a notch above a token commitment. Likewise, the UK has a sweetheart deal with the EU. Imperiling that for an emotionally satisfying 'Leave!' vote would be folly. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Trueblue,
The fascist-xenophobic stuff was not directed at you nor was it made with you in mind, so you can ignore it. You are right, it is not exactly the height of discourse. But this forum is not exactly a professional forum anymore ... if it ever was. |
...can't argue with that.
trueblue wrote:
You may be right on the outcome....but, I would like to see Britain take back its country.
| Quote: |
If UK loses Scotland, that would be the furthest thing from "taking back the country." The phrase "take back the country" would be turned into an even emptier platitude than the terms 'fascists' or 'xenophobes.'
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...one thing at a time.
| Quote: |
I believe that Cameron limited the refugee influx to 25,000. He did a good job balancing commitments to the EU to limiting the influx. Likewise, UK has a sweetheart deal with the EU. Imperiling that for an emotionally satisfying 'Leave!' vote would be folly.
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I"m not British so I cannot effectively provide sound points, but, the England and English culture are pretty much, kindred blood (or were).
Should there not be a referendum on immigration? I would love to see that (especially in the U.S.....in fact, other things should have been in that category) |
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Swartz
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| If UK loses Scotland, that would be the furthest thing from "taking back the country.". |
This is a very stupid statement. It doesn't even make any sense because the person who made it is clouded in ignorance, obviously. If the UK lost Scotland, it would not be the furthest thing from Britain taking back its own nation. Scotland fought for its independence for decades or even centuries, it should be separate, but it already had its referendum anyway. Scotland would also probably join the EU if Britain dropped out. Small countries like Scotland love to signal that they're the most liberal because they haven't seen the full effects of liberalism. They haven't seen what its like to have the east end of their main city turned into Kabul.
| trueblue wrote: |
| Should there not be a referendum on immigration? |
A vote/referendum on immigration? Has that ever happened anywhere within a modern Western democracy?
(It's never happened.) |
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Jimskins
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well, polls have just opened...
Going into today 'Remain' had a lead of about 5% so it's unlikely that they will lose, usually in 'status quo vs change' elections the 'change' camp needs a lead of about 5% at least to have a chance of victory. I think Leave was building a bit of momentum until the murder of Jo Cox MP and then it was buggered (even though the murderer appears to be a nut-job and not really anything to do with the election).
I've got a proxy vote but I'm still undecided. I've always been a pro-European but ever since the expansion to 27 countries the institutions have become bloated and even more remote from the citizens of each country. As we slowly devolve powers to the regions in the UK (elected mayors and so forth) the EU increasingly seems undemocratic and an idea whose time has past.
Would Britain be hurt economically by Brexit? Of course, at least in the short term, and Boris should have conceded that point and focused on the more winnable issues of accountability and the worrying rise of the far right in Europe as a result of the EU's failings. But unfortunately the Brexit camp is associated with Farage and all the immigration nonsense which is really a none-issue and turns the majority off.
The debate as a whole has been hopeless on both sides, the self-righteousness of the Remain supporters on a decision which is so difficult and complex is a bit sickening sometimes. If I have to read another preachy Remain facebook post by someone who probably couldn't even name one of their local MEPs I'll drown myself in a bowl of honey-butter pat-bing-su.
I was a marginal 'in' coming into the home straight and then thought about abstaining on principle because of the aforementioned social media crusaders. Now I'm thinking of voting 'leave', as remain are going to win comfortably but the closer the result the more pressure it puts on Europe to sort itself out (not that they ever listen to what the people want, as Ireland well knows).
Or maybe I'll have a Cass Lemon and a w... |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: |
Should there not be a referendum on immigration? I would love to see that (especially in the U.S.....in fact, other things should have been in that category) |
The problem is that often referenda are held at the local or state levels, but immigration is typically administered at the Federal level. That is why Proposition 187 in California was ruled unconstitutional.
| Swartz wrote: |
A vote/referendum on immigration? Has that ever happened anywhere within a modern Western democracy?
(It's never happened.) |
Of course it has happened. Prop 187 from California is the obvious example. The Swiss Immigration Referendum of February 2014 comes to mind. There are probably others.
| Swartz wrote: |
Plain Meaning wrote:
If UK loses Scotland, that would be the furthest thing from "taking back the country.".
This is a very stupid statement. It doesn't even make any sense because the person who made it is clouded in ignorance, obviously. If the UK lost Scotland, it would not be the furthest thing from Britain taking back its own nation. Scotland fought for its independence for decades or even centuries, it should be separate, but it already had its referendum anyway. Scotland would also probably join the EU if Britain dropped out. Small countries like Scotland love to signal that they're the most liberal because they haven't seen the full effects of liberalism. They haven't seen what its like to have the east end of their main city turned into Kabul. |
What is stupid, Swartz? Scotland is plainly a part of the United Kingdom. There was a referendum in 2014.
| Quote: |
| A referendum on Scottish independence took place on 18 September 2014.[1] The independence referendum question, which voters answered with "Yes" or "No", was "Should Scotland be an independent country?"[2] The "No" side won, with 2,001,926 (55.3%) voting against independence and 1,617,989 (44.7%) voting in favour. |
Since there was a referendum once, there could be another referendum in the future. Scotland may chose to leave the UK if the UK leaves Europe. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Jimskins wrote: |
I was a marginal 'in' coming into the home straight and then thought about abstaining on principle because of the aforementioned social media crusaders. Now I'm thinking of voting 'leave', as remain are going to win comfortably but the closer the result the more pressure it puts on Europe to sort itself out (not that they ever listen to what the people want, as Ireland well knows).
Or maybe I'll have a Cass Lemon and a w... |
Yanis Varoufakis: why Britain must stay in Europe |
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Swartz
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Of course it has happened. Prop 187 from California is the obvious example. The Swiss Immigration Referendum of February 2014 comes to mind. |
Prop 187 wasn't a vote on immigration, cuckboy. Mass immigration is not something people in the West have been allowed to vote on except in Switzerland. It's a policy that has been imposed from the top down.
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
What is stupid, Swartz? Scotland is plainly a part of the United Kingdom. There was a referendum in 2014.
| Quote: |
| A referendum on Scottish independence took place on 18 September 2014.[1] The independence referendum question, which voters answered with "Yes" or "No", was "Should Scotland be an independent country?"[2] The "No" side won, with 2,001,926 (55.3%) voting against independence and 1,617,989 (44.7%) voting in favour. |
Since there was a referendum once, there could be another referendum in the future. Scotland may chose to leave the UK if the UK leaves Europe. |
Yeah, I said that. If Scotland chose to not be a part of the UK, it wouldn't be the “furthest thing from taking back the country.” What does that statement even mean? Hint: nothing. Losing Scotland would make it easier for the English to take back their country. In fact, if the Scottish had left 2014, it would have made this attempt to take it back a much more realistic endeavor. You just talk to talk, with rarely a clue about what you're trying to talk about. |
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Titus2
Joined: 06 Sep 2015
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Britain will Remain in the EU |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
We are getting through it this time. The proto-fascists and xenophobes are having their moment, but it will expire with the Remain vote and the election of Hillary Clinton as President. |
They voted to leave, Trump is going to win, and the proto-fascists are just getting started. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Britain will Remain in the EU |
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| Titus2 wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
We are getting through it this time. The proto-fascists and xenophobes are having their moment, but it will expire with the Remain vote and the election of Hillary Clinton as President. |
They voted to leave, Trump is going to win, and the proto-fascists are just getting started. |
Blast!
I forgot to account for the weather. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| In response to an earlier post, elite fear-mongers who use the terms fascism, xenophobia, and racism are arguably better than crude fear-mongers (who embrace fascist, xenophobic and racist ideas ...) |
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Swartz
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| In response to an earlier post, elite fear-mongers who use the terms fascism, xenophobia, and racism are arguably better than crude fear-mongers (who embrace fascist, xenophobic and racist ideas ...) |
If I may, allow me to more deeply analyze the brainwashing the modern liberal has undergone. Similar to Leon's video the other week, but actually useful since we can eschew the Marxist disinformation outright. Okay: to understand the modern liberal you must understand his greatest fears, or the fears of his Juden masters. Over and over he says “fascism!” But why does he fear a nearly century-old political ideology? It seems so odd. He fears fascism, or he's told to fear fascism, because fascism was what arose in opposition to his master's ideology of communism, the political ideology we live under now. These fears are thus transferred onto him through the media, he makes them his own, and then he repeats them because this is an expression of his cultural Judaization. Voila.
Also, Whites are going to have to realize that racism and xenophobia are evolutionary responses to realistic threats that aren't going to be socially engineered out of society any time soon. Policing others' supposed racism and expecting it to go away is a complete waste of time. That's like Kuros thinking he'll grow taller just by wishing it so. Anti-racism is a ruse to make you chase your tail, and the tail of everyone else around you.
Anyway, good news.
| Quote: |
“Bliss was it to be alive.,.” the words of poet William Wordsworth seem appropriate on a morning when Britain woke up to find the world had turned upside down — and our ruling elite had been given a decisive bloody nose. The British people’s narrow but definite rejection of the European Union is the biggest upset since Churchill was rejected by the voters in 1945.
The country seems in shock this morning. Red-eyed female presenters on the BBC look as if they have suffered a close family bereavement and the commentators are scrambling around trying to make sense of it all but there is no doubt who they are blaming: David Cameron, the “heir to Blair” himself and a man who had sworn to make Britain safe for the financial and bureaucratic elites.
In a system in which the defining characteristic of politicians must always be the ability to successfully sell lies to the voters, Cameron finally failed to deliver. He had come to power on a promise to reduce annual net immigration to under 100,000 and instead it had soared to an official 310,000 (unofficially it much higher than 500,000). While ordinary people were aghast, Cameron had merely shrugged his shoulders and said his hands were tied by Europe. For generations, British politicians had got away with this. Then he allowed himself to be talked into a referendum. You can see the rationale. The voters had fallen for it repeatedly and there seemed no reason to think they would not do so again.
And this was where he made his fatal mistake. For the referendum gave people the one thing that the party system is specifically designed to prevent — a clear-cut choice. Why did it happen? The answer of course is hubris; a political elite drunk on entitlement who believed their own propaganda.
Standing outside the front door of 10 Downing Street, Cameron choked back the tears and listed his main “achievements”: record levels of mass immigration into the new Britain, making it into a “multi-racial, multi-faith democracy,” and making gay marriage legal. It looked like a resignation but, dissembler to the end, he said he would hang on until October to secure a smooth transition. Eventually though, in the manner of all Western politicians, he must be binned like a surgeon’s gloves — and replaced with someone similar.
One huge benefit from the referendum is that the fault lines in British society are now in clear view and undeniable. It was Benjamin Disraeli in his 1845 novel Sybil who first coined the phrase “two nations” to describe how wealthy capitalists had been enriched by the industrial revolution while the working class of northern England had been plunged into poverty.
It is the same now. It is the White working class who have borne the brunt of mass immigration. There are clear divides between young and old, rich and poor, professional and manual, north and south. The bureaucrats and the proles.
Most of all it was a victory for the White working class of England over, not just Cameron, but their Labour Party overseers and a media establishment that has never bothered to hide its contempt. While Scotland, London and the main cities voted to remain, it was the ordinary Whites in the shires and Labour heartlands of England who turned out in massive numbers for this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to say no. The final figure may look narrow but among the White working class in some areas it seems to have been a landslide, and, if so, it means that the apparent spell that the Labour Party had on the poorest areas is broken.
One of the most delicious moments in the campaign was when Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn admitted there was no upward limit for mass migration into Britain.
This one gaffe must surely signal the end of Labour suzerainty in their northern heartland. At the last general election Labour in Scotland was wiped out by the Scottish nationalists — surely a resurgent UKIP will destroy the Labour Party in northern England.
The referendum also revealed one of the most carefully concealed truths of the White dispossession — that it is, at heart, a vicious class war between the haves and the have-nots. What used to be the traditional working class have watched in disbelief as their country has been taken away from them and their neighbourhoods transformed without ever being consulted. They have seen how their objections have been ignored by a party system designed to ensure their views are sidelined but which has always smeared them as being morally deficient.
For this is the dark secret at the heart of equality and multiculturalism. At root, it is a hate movement based on status and directed at Whites further down the ladder. The lower order Whites have been patronised, ignored and betrayed by a colour blind bureaucratic elite which no longer bothers to conceal the contempt with which it regards the less fortunate amongst its own ethnic group. Multiculturalism is just a weapon to use against your own poor. “Caring” was only ever about signalling virtue — and looking down on White people with less education and less money.
Few will forget the image of that obscene poverty pimp Bob Geldof on a yacht packed with millionaires in the Thames, making obscene gestures to fishermen complaining about the loss of their industry.
Then as if wallowing in the gutter was not enough, the Remain camp decided to drag their campaign into the sewer. The apotheosis of this must surely have been the ululations over the sainted Jo Cox. The state-sponsored outpouring of grief was North Korean in its carefully orchestrated intensity and surely exceeds even those two landmark events in the history of mass hysteria, the death of Diana, Princess of Wales in 1996 and Bob Geldof’s Live Aid for famine relief in 1985. |
Rest below.
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/06/britain-says-no/ |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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The EU bureaucrats certainly deserve this result. The banksters in London finally have received their comeuppance for years of economic benefit at the expense of England's hinterlands. Lots of good things could result from this, and it was never certain that Britain could help reform the EU if it had remained.
Well done to Nigel Farage. It is the first World-historical accomplishment for the modern far-right.
Also, Cameron resigned! Not sure what it all means for Labour or Tories in general, though. |
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