|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:07 pm Post subject: The Marginally Palatable Gary Johnson |
 |
|
It is more than just Chicken or Fish
There is also some Posole back in the kitchen. (There's even an old lady with tofu wandering around somewhere).
Gary Johnson. Executive Experience. Not a Sociopath. Not a Liar. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gary Johnson wins poll of active service members
| Quote: |
Johnson garnered 38.7 percent of the active duty vote, versus 30.9 for Trump, and 14.1 for Clinton, according to the survey, which was conducted via the popular military personality Doctrine Man.
Although the survey was not a scientific poll with a margin of error, it provides a snapshot of the preferences of about 3,500 active duty, reservists, retired and former members of the military and their family members, 95.7 percent of which were registered voters.
Among all services except for the Navy, Johnson performed better than Trump and Clinton. |
Its not scientific, but apparently active duty service members may dislike war and prefer a steady hand as Commander-in-Chief. But I caution you, this finding is not scientific. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I see him as unlikely to start a nuclear war. Good enough for me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TorontoToronto
Joined: 20 Jun 2016
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I heard him on Penn Sunday School. He sort of over reaches in terms of the medicinal benefits of pot but he seems pretty sensible in most regards. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TorontoToronto wrote: |
| I heard him on Penn Sunday School. He sort of over reaches in terms of the medicinal benefits of pot but he seems pretty sensible in most regards. |
He has business interests in that field (or did), so that's probably one reason he pushed that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| He seems ok, but libertarianism is wildly utopian so not sure it's a good idea to encourage them with lots of votes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Leon wrote: |
| He seems ok, but libertarianism is wildly utopian so not sure it's a good idea to encourage them with lots of votes. |
You are right. If you want to vote for a party, you should just pick one of the two liars from the duopoly.
On the other hand, if you want to vote for a candidate, Gary Johnson has a record: http://reason.com/blog/2016/05/25/gary-johnsons-new-mexico-fiscal-record-d
Jill Stein and Donald Trump are the utopians in this race (Trump is also cynical, too), and Clinton is an ultra-cynical and realist choice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Leon wrote: |
| He seems ok, but libertarianism is wildly utopian so not sure it's a good idea to encourage them with lots of votes. |
Economically yes. Socially, no. This country has become increasingly libertarian in the past decade or so. Foreign policy wise? I wouldn't call it utopian. Naive maybe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TorontoToronto
Joined: 20 Jun 2016
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Leon wrote: |
| He seems ok, but libertarianism is wildly utopian so not sure it's a good idea to encourage them with lots of votes. |
Like most political ideologies there are good ideas. But a lot of ideologies confuse "a lot of something is bad therefore zero is the best possible world". A lot of vitamin A is bad for you. Zero and you're dead. Where the ever swinging pendulum comes to rest on political issues is ultimately what we trying to decide every election. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| This country has become increasingly libertarian in the past decade or so. |
Do you really feel that way? It has been a while since I have lived in America, so I do not really know, but the news I see from abroad makes it seem that, except for a few petty issues like drug usage, America is actually moving away from libertarian thought. To the extent that the Libertarian Party might see an increase in support during this election, could it not be explained by an intersection of the supreme unpalatability of the Republican candidate and the fact that Gary Johnson is, at least ideologically speaking, less a stark Libertarian than a moderate Republican, and one with a decent amount of real experience at effectively governing? Even ostensibly libertarian outcomes like less aggressive policing and indifference towards abnormal sexuality seem to actually have been motivated by vigorous "left wing" thought and the identity politics which accompany it rather than concern for liberty. Having the federal government impose such policies on you through court action or the threat of it is the exact opposite of libertarianism, isn't it?
In fact, I remember this coming up at the Libertarian Party debates, with Gary Johnson essentially arguing the federal interventionist case (very poorly, I might add) against an opposing candidate who retorted with a more traditionally libertarian position. Even the Libertarian Party seems to be trending away from libertarianism to some extent! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fox wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| This country has become increasingly libertarian in the past decade or so. |
Do you really feel that way? It has been a while since I have lived in America, so I do not really know, but the news I see from abroad makes it seem that, except for a few petty issues like drug usage, America is actually moving away from libertarian thought. To the extent that the Libertarian Party might see an increase in support during this election, could it not be explained by an intersection of the supreme unpalatability of the Republican candidate and the fact that Gary Johnson is, at least ideologically speaking, less a stark Libertarian than a moderate Republican, and one with a decent amount of real experience at effectively governing? Even ostensibly libertarian outcomes like less aggressive policing and indifference towards abnormal sexuality seem to actually have been motivated by vigorous "left wing" thought and the identity politics which accompany it rather than concern for liberty. Having the federal government impose such policies on you through court action or the threat of it is the exact opposite of libertarianism, isn't it?
In fact, I remember this coming up at the Libertarian Party debates, with Gary Johnson essentially arguing the federal interventionist case (very poorly, I might add) against an opposing candidate who retorted with a more traditionally libertarian position. Even the Libertarian Party seems to be trending away from libertarianism to some extent! |
To me, American libertarianism at its heart has always been about an extreme interpretation of laissez faire capitalism than anything else. Stuff like drug legalization has always seemed like window dressing. It's an extreme ideology, and I find it interesting that a fair number of former libertarians now share the views of our friends Titus and Swartz. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fox wrote: |
| Having the federal government impose such policies on you through court action or the threat of it is the exact opposite of libertarianism, isn't it? |
If there is a constitutional liberty or right, and a state infringes on that right, then there ought to be a remedy. This is not so much libertarianism as effective civil government. Not sure what you mean by 'such policies,' here. And as to what you said above, I totally reject that Leftism is fairly characterized as even being predominantly about identity politics. It is more about liberty, yes, clickbaity campus obnoxiousness aside. See Cesar Chavez's rejection of La Raza. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Having the federal government impose such policies on you through court action or the threat of it is the exact opposite of libertarianism, isn't it? |
If there is a constitutional liberty or right, and a state infringes on that right, then there ought to be a remedy. This is not so much libertarianism as effective civil government. Not sure what you mean by 'such policies,' here. |
The federal courts doing things like dictating to the states what the institution of marriage is to be, for example, is absolutely not libertarianism. An ever-increasing group of federally-protected "classes" is also not libertarian in character. The federal government harassing particular municipalities in response to identity-politics-driven riots is also not libertarian in character. State schools engaging in "affirmative action" does not strike me as very libertarian in character either. That's the most bizarre thing about the modern orthodoxy: it mandates the government discriminate in favor of select groups while simultaneously demanding the citizenry not discriminate in their private business affairs. You can support all of these things if you like, but they are not libertarian in character.
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| And as to what you said above, I totally reject that Leftism is fairly characterized as even being predominantly about identity politics. |
Well, I can't speak about "leftism" in general, but the American Democratic Party is predominantly about identity politics. There's a reason the Democratic nominee was able to casually dismiss the idea of effectively regulating the banking industry by suggesting it, 'wouldn't end racism or sexism.' There's a reason why that nominee's gender is itself seen as a compelling reason to vote for her by many of her supporters. There's a reason you find yourself arguing against basic, definitionally-correct, common-use English phrases like, "illegal immigrant." There's a reason why you yourself pushed memes like the "Every 28 Hours" one, which deceptively implies that police violence is a "Black" problem despite the fact that both in absolute terms and when compared to rates of violent criminality, more European Americans are killed per year by the police than African Americans. There's a reason why students on campuses across the country are pushing absurd sets of demands for certain racial groups to receive special privileges. There's a reason why Bernie Sanders supporters -- supporters of a candidate whose conception of "leftism" is a bit more traditional and overall less focused on identity politics -- get accused of "racism," "sexism," and so forth as a basic go-to attack (to say nothing of, say, supporters of Donald Trump, or for that matter, any Republican candidate); it's always "racist" this, "sexist" that, "homophobe," "Islamophobe," and so on and so forth. There's a reason an issue as absolutely trivial and marginal as what bathroom people who are confused about their gender should use has become a national matter. I can go on and on, but I think I've made my point: if one were to "totally reject" the notion that American "leftism" is about identity politics, it would be reality that is the object of said rejection. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Leon wrote: |
To me, American libertarianism at its heart has always been about an extreme interpretation of laissez faire capitalism than anything else. Stuff like drug legalization has always seemed like window dressing. |
I cannot help but feel like that does a disservice to sincere libertarians. To some extent it's true that libertarians talk about economics to an inordinate degree, but I suspect that libertarians often turn to economics for the same reason that "leftists" turn to sociology: they feel like that's the best path to justifying their ideology (and conveniently, both disciplines are very vulnerable to fudging results in favor of one's biases). I suspect the average libertarian would not see things like drug legalization as mere "window dressing," because their support for drug legalization and support for laissez faire economics stem from and are an expression of the same ideological source. Yes, it's an extreme position, insofar as it's premised on a relatively simple idea, but to the extent that there's a problem with it, it's not that it's "extreme," it's that it would produce very poor results for a lot of people, and the pool of people for whom those results would be poor seems like it will increase rather than decrease over time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gary Johnson is no Ron Paul. Arguably, Ron Paul was not even Ron Paul.
The word libertarian is subject to such dispute that you would have trouble finding even libertarians who agree. Arguably, libertarians like to argue over such things.
The shift of the Libertarian Party to two former governors shows a certain amount of pragmatism. It is definitely the party's pledge to seriousness. So why protest vote Libertarian? You would not. You would write-in or something. But for what does the Gary Johnson and Bill Weld ticket stand? That is the question. It seems like they are making a pledge for a combination of something lost, a kind of Rockefeller Republican, combined with something forward-looking, an alternative to the EU's statist bureaucratic nightmare. As a third-party, the Libertarians are not sapped with special interests. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
