Korean Job Discussion Forums

[World Traveler]

[goat]

[PRagic]

I was here in the late 80s, but I was in the Army and didn't see much of 'real' Korean life, especially in the big cities.

It was still pretty funky in the early 90s when I moved here permanently. Hagwon jobs didn't pay too much, but there weren't too many foreigners even in Seoul, and people were chucking all different kinds of work at you so it was easy to earn at least your salary again on the outside teaching, writing, editing, etc. Housing was provided and pretty nice, at least in my experience.

Even in the mid to late 90s, people were getting university positions with just a BA, and those paid 2.0-2.5 plus housing for a 12-15 hour sched, 3-4 days a week, with fully paid summers/winters off. Most I knew at the time were in the 2.5-3.0 ballpark if they had their MA. Yonsei and SNU were the best places to work (but that didn't last). And, again, if you networked and were remotely competent, you could at least double your salary on the outside, even tripple it during breaks.

Then I got married and started working at university after I finished my Master's. Two incomes and a free apartment? Life was pretty good. Sure, there was a lot of running around and a lot of work, but we were a heck of a lot younger and having a good time doing it.

Those who stayed put during the financial melt down in the late 90s had more flexibility. The exchange rate was crap, but if you didn't have to send money back, it didn't matter. It was, in retrospect, a good time to invest here.

[edwardcatflap]

[PRagic]

Agreed. Even in the early 90s, being an English teacher was not high up on the status totem pole, especially if you worked for an institute or, gasp, worked gigs on a tourist visa.

People seldom go into ESL for status, though, and most of the people I know who have made a very good living teaching have been more concerned with the bottom line than with the way Koreans viewed them.

[The Great Toad]

Ha ha you are all addicts to my fav fermented food... you wont leave Korea. Or alot of you (i luv to use alot the reason why i do not tech merikans anymor got tired of correcting alot) u can not get jobs outside cuz you aint even got a teacher kreditiantials like me.

That was kinda my freudian rage in korea 23 year old envy of the guys big fat salary lime mine when my big package of background creds and experence shoulda trumped his and had me making mor.

So it was that i left korea and went to work 4 tons of cash in arab places... now though i am in south east asia making mor than i ever did in korea... tbough not as much as mid-east.

Meanwhile you scrubs are mad cuz you do not get raises. Anint nobody gonna give you a raise when the bar is set at university degree and some 99dolla online tesol course! Ha ha try being cool like me and work in Arab countries... although i admit i missed bbq korean pork bekchu wraps that are illeagal in them blasted arab lands.

Anyway i am still furious at korea for not hiring me back into epik again but it was 4 my monetary gain and coreas loss of brain blessin. I guess i might go back if i can get a slacker u iversity job but rite now i am fine making mor money with slower internet. I just wish all u slacker 4 year hiztory of gender maxists studies could get a job in ur home coutries with ur worthless degrees then i could get back into korea and eat tons kf refried kimchi with fresh duuboo... but nooooooo you slacker guys have to take my job! Please go home and collect unemlloyment so the demand outpaces supply - then next contract i will leave se asia and do Corea again.

Get out of Korea- starbucks will hire ur hipstsr selves.

[S3raph1m]

[edwardcatflap]

[PRagic]

A number of people I've known have transitioned into other lines of work here, too.

Some have gotten really into writing and voice recording and make a very good buck doing that. Others have gone into financial editing. Their pay and bennies are quite good.

Others have gone the independent business route and have succeeded in the restaurant/pub business. One dude has flipped a couple of successful places here and has just purchased a place in Guam.

Myself and some others I've met just did their Master's and Ph.D.s in non-ESL related fields and transitioned into regular academic life here at universities on the tenure track.

The ESL professionals I know who make their living in that field all have related MAs, CELTA, and DELTA. Many work at places without term limits and have seen their salaries increase quite a bit over the years. Several have taught in at least two or three other countries, but have come back to Korea for the university gigs.

There's more than one way to skin the success cat.

[S3raph1m]

[PRagic]

There have been some write ups in the Chronicle of Higher Education about academics moving abroad for work. A lot of people from W. Europe and N. America are taking positions in Asia, E. Europe, and S. America, for example. The Middle East is constantly hiring as well if that's your cup of tea. Part of the motivation is, as you mentioned, crap markets 'at home'. The other motivation is wanting to work somewhere interesting and, optimistically, nice.

Is it 'easier' to get hired here in Korea? Depends on what you do and where you want to work. Forget most jobs in academe teaching and researchinig content with just the MA. If you want to work at a top-5 in Seoul, then no, it's not easier, even with the Ph.D. You have to be at least as qualified as you would be to get in the door at a major US State university, maybe even more (can't get hired here as ABD, for example, plus they want publications and an established research agenda). Plus, you have to factor in competition from Koreans returning from the US and Europe with big name degrees who really, REALLY want these jobs here.

A buddy of mine just got turned down by Sogang, and he's a tenured full prof and chair of a department at a major US State flagship university! Go figure. He's globally recognized. Unreal.

But the odds are not good even in established systems. I believe only about 50% of those who begin Ph.D.s actually finish. Then IF finished, only about 30% actually get tenure track jobs. From there, even more are weeded out either before tenure, or they make Associate and tenure, but never get the promotion to Full Professor. Tough market going in. Heaven forbid you stuck in the adjunct rut for a few years, a rut out of which few emerge.

You might choose instead to NOT work for an R1 school. You could angle for small, private, teaching intensive universities where the research requirements are slim to none. Same goes for Korea. There are a lot of nice private 4 years schools. Never know.

Buyer beware: it can be tough to re-transition back to N. America or W. Europe after having been out of their systems for a while. Publishing a bunch can help to overcome that, but there are other reasons. Also, it helps if you have some familiarity with the culture into which you'll be transitioning. Going to S. America? Helps a LOT if you speak Spanish. Japan? Get ready to bone up on your Japanese, because they'll expect a level of fluency in around 5 years. Want to teach in Israel? Better speak the lingo.

Best advice? Shoot for the biggest name school you can get into without breaking the bank (mostly for the MA level as good Ph.D. programs are largely funded). Big name schools or top 10 grad programs (not always the same) can go a long way toward getting you in. Also, if you're going to go for the Ph.D., knock it out and don't sputter through it. I knew a guy who started one late, but then bagged it after 5 or 6 years in the program. What a complete waste of time.

Do it or don't, but if you do, get it done. Screw vacations, screw free time. Graduate. And publish. Strike while the iron is hot. Most new hires are those who graduated within 2-3 years. They have teaching experience gained while doing their dissertations, and they have publications; some have a lot of publications. I applied to a big name school when I had just graduated. Made their call back, but didn't get the interview. I asked why. The reason they gave me was that I 'only' had an average of 2.2 publications a year. I thought that was ok as I had only graduated a couple of years prior. Nope. They had over a hundred applicants, and some had 4-5 publications a year on average. That's NUTS.

[World Traveler]

[edwardcatflap]

[SuperfuzzBigmuff]

[tophatcat]

The salaries may have stagnated but Korea has blossomed into a global mecca for the renaissance minded and international festivals. Korea is an international hub for the cool cats.