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Korea Burn Out
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OopsIMadeIt



Joined: 03 Oct 2017

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Korea Burn Out Reply with quote

Korea burned me out. I feel little but apathy about being there. All that's being discussed here I've heard. There is a void of existence one faces there, as if time stops and some sort of regression of your life takes over, because socially you're not climbing, but backtracking, trying to double back. You reach for a life raft, a Western community, but you just drift and drift until emaciated you land in McDonald's asking yourself how you ever got to this point as the kids stare and you order a kimchi and rice burger.
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recessiontime



Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in 2009 I did 70 hour weeks plus under the table stuff. I worked at high school but I would stay back after classes to appease the teachers. I suppose it was all self inflicted. I burned out quickly after 10 months. I didn't have any western friends. There were a couple of white girls but they were NOT attractive.

Honestly, I look back and think how hard I worked for such little money. That's not to denigrate the pay (I used to get 2.1m), I just earn way more now for doing very little.

When I remember the good days there it was all about eating out at restaurants and going out almost every day to arcades. Everything was cheap as chips and I loved that.

Btw, I haven't posted here for over 8 years!! Dave looks so old now!!
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You were doing it wrong.

My time in SK began when there was no Burger King, touch-screen phones, Facebook, or foreign food selections at Homeplus. After 3 years teaching at a hakwan with a fresh but useless BA, I began managing one of the campuses. 2.7 for a 40 hour week. A year later, at 3.1, I was promoted to Foreign Teachers Manager to the full chain of 5 campuses. After 5 years, with no MA required, I landed a 15 hour week uni gig at Kyungpook National, and all the time in the world for a hobby, daily health club workouts, and $50/hour privates. The 3 months paid vacation allowed me ample time to decompress in a different tropical location every year.

In the early years, when I was working at the hakwan, I volunteered at Daegu City Hall. This quickly led to well-paying work, proofreading and editing all English municipal publications and mayoral speeches. I also published articles in the city's Chingusai newsletter for foreigners. The contacts at City Hall led to more lucrative work for the 2011 IAAF World Athletics Championships.

I still do random work for the city a decade later from my home country and they wire payments to my bank account. I didn't eat at McDs any more than once a month. Instead, I hunted down atypical Korean restaurants, or Indian, or Russian, or Thai.

After 13 years in Korea, I paid off my student loans, saved enough money for a deposit on a new car and bought a small business in my home country. It's only now that I know the feeling of being burned out. Yeah, the stares and the crowds get to you. But it's better than hypodermic needles in the park where I walk my dog, or the massive chunk of taxes the govt robs from me every month.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No secret to anyone who knows me, the better half included, but I probably would have burned out within a year or two and left had I just done the hagwon thing. I needed to keep building toward something here to keep me satisfied; I knew I wanted to be here, I just didn't want to be teaching English.

So I did an MBA here and built up a side business doing different things like writing (test questions, articles, whatever asked), recording, and editing. Taught a couple of higher paying corporate English classes, but other than that, I made an effort to keep away from kiddie privates. The money coming in made it more than worthwhile and was justification for my wife, who was also working, and I to want to stay.

Had an interim university job teaching English for a year and half when the 'IMF Crisis' hit, and that helped cement the idea of getting a Ph.D. and working in academe, albeit not related to teaching English. So that's what I did, and I've enjoyed it ever since. Totally different life. We're pretty financially set and can enjoy our lives given the time off my job affords.

Gotta side with crescent. Everyone does it differently, but there are a lot of things you can do here other than teach English if you like it here and want to make a go of it. We have friends who have shifted over to professional financial editing, who have open and run successful pubs and restaurants, and who have gotten involved in the ESL industry in radio and TV or who work in animation, PR, or commercial voice dubbing. Our friends who have made university English teaching their vocation have also done quite well, and ejoy pretty cool lives.
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amorphous154



Joined: 20 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crescent wrote:

After 13 years in Korea, I paid off my student loans, saved enough money for a deposit on a new car and bought a small business in my home country. It's only now that I know the feeling of being burned out. Yeah, the stares and the crowds get to you. But it's better than hypodermic needles in the park where I walk my dog, or the massive chunk of taxes the govt robs from me every month.


You from the rust belt where the car factories are losing jobs? That's kind of where I am at now. It's tough here sometimes to maintain a long term job as most of the optimism about the job economy is from low wage and/or short term contracting jobs. Actually considering going back after I did a short esl stint back in the recession. Is it generally the same from say a decade ago or changed considerably so its just not worth it? But yeah that's enviable that you accomplished so much by living there!
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Money is freedom. Crescent, like other successful cases here, saved and paid off debt. Some use the coin to better their condition here, some use it to transition to somewhere else, maybe back home or maybe somewhere new.

The important thing is to save, bank, and pay off debt. Virtually every miserable person I've met here has been miserable because they've felt they've had no options, no freedom of choice. And why would that be? Because they failed to save and invest, thereby limiting their options. And by that I meant not only money, but also an investment in oneself.

Things have changed here over the past 10 years, but you could still come back and make a go of it. It'd be worth it if you'd maximize any earning potential and if you saved and invested as much as possible, but that'd be the same advice I'd give to anyone going anywhere!

If you have a marketable skill set and experience, could you equally benefit, or benefit more, from a move to another region in your state or another US state all together?
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amorphous154 wrote:

You from the rust belt where the car factories are losing jobs? That's kind of where I am at now. It's tough here sometimes to maintain a long term job as most of the optimism about the job economy is from low wage and/or short term contracting jobs. Actually considering going back after I did a short esl stint back in the recession. Is it generally the same from say a decade ago or changed considerably so its just not worth it? But yeah that's enviable that you accomplished so much by living there!

Sounds like we both face somewhat similar economic realities. I'm from the golden horseshoe, Southern Ontario, Canada... home of the highest priced real estate, and lowest full-time job vacancy in the province. GM closed one plant a decade ago and is closing another plant, forcing out an additional 2500 people. The local canning company, ED Smiths has been bought out by an American corp, and they are signalling that the company's 70 year run will be packing up and moving across the border. Hamilton's reputed steal industry is in the toilet, employing less than 10% of capacity. I knew before returning, I would not have much to return to with a resume drenched in ESL work, hence the decision to become self employed. Plan A, was to remain in Korea and use my savings to invest in real estate. But the ESL market, to answer your question is not as viable as it once was.

Koreans are much less dependant on foreign support in the ESL industry from what I hear, as Koreans have become much more worldly and better trained to teach. Universities now for the most part, require MAs for instructors in the freshman academic stream. Wages are stagnant and the market is shrinking. Trends unfolding in university employment contracts are alarming. I was fortunate to have arrived at the peak. I was also fortunate that I was successful in researching and signing with a reputable language institute. Things started in the right direction.

As PRagic hinted, there is promise in diversifying your resume if you do make the jump back in. Smaller cities will offer more opportunity to do side work as they are generally less developed and less competitive. Foreigners generally prefer to reside in larger cities for the added amenities and support.

Another alternative is to better your education while abroad. You could either study online, or save up and become a full time student when you return home. Study the trends in the job markets where you wish to return to and complete some post grad in that area. Most struggling regions have employment agencies that have 'change of career' assistance, including government grants.

I'm not sure if this is still the case, but when I left Korea, China was the place to maximize one's revenue in ESL. I do know that IELTS is huge with the Chinese. Need an ever thicker skin, and lungs there, though.
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amorphous154



Joined: 20 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PRagic wrote:

Things have changed here over the past 10 years, but you could still come back and make a go of it. It'd be worth it if you'd maximize any earning potential and if you saved and invested as much as possible, but that'd be the same advice I'd give to anyone going anywhere!

If you have a marketable skill set and experience, could you equally benefit, or benefit more, from a move to another region in your state or another US state all together?


Hi Pragic, thanks for the response. I will admit I didnt make the most of my my first go around in Korea. I bought a lemon of a car, an old Honda, and did not know it had an accident history. I also went back to school for basic computing skills and some certifications like the a+. But here in the rust belt out near Youngstown, the only IT jobs are stopgap jobs that are so easy anyone can do it. There isnt any growth and the wages are just enough to put gas in your car and get from point a to point b lol. I think about relocating to another city in the US but dont have many connections so it can be a scary prospect. I've even heard of people even getting like a temp job at google and then be letting go.

So right now I dont have a lot of savings to take risks. But you are right perhaps I should look more. Maybe I can do a two fold approach, here and in Korea right? I mean when is the latest can I decide to turn down an offer in Korea? Right now only recruiter that has really responded to me has been canadian connection but they only offer jobs near Gwangju which I dont know much about except its far away from Seoul!

Tough decisions, its not like the old days, when you could road trip, sleep in your van in the States and get a job on a farm or anything. The rent is too high, everywhere!
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OopsIMadeIt



Joined: 03 Oct 2017

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole experience didn't matter much, is what I am saying, finances aside although the draw is more than this if one computes their status in life compared to success here and what I now find in comparison back home. It was just a treadmill existence there, one vacuous and vapid.
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amorphous154



Joined: 20 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OopsIMadeIt wrote:
The whole experience didn't matter much, is what I am saying, finances aside although the draw is more than this if one computes their status in life compared to success here and what I now find in comparison back home. It was just a treadmill existence there, one vacuous and vapid.


You must live in an up and coming city? Some places here in the states people arent trying to make gains they are trying to make it the end of the month! I keep on hearing about a great jobs economy, but in the last 4-5 workplaces here in the last year lots of coming and goings, some that have ended real ugly. I dont know what anyone can do though but back here we need good jobs with some security. A lot of Americans are still really hurting!
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OopsIMadeIt wrote:
The whole experience didn't matter much, is what I am saying, finances aside although the draw is more than this if one computes their status in life compared to success here and what I now find in comparison back home. It was just a treadmill existence there, one vacuous and vapid.

Again, it's what YOU made it. That certainly wasn't my experience, those close to me. How would the ESL experience be any different in China, Saudi, or Japan for the expat who doesn't put any effort into it?
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amorphous154



Joined: 20 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crescent wrote:

Another alternative is to better your education while abroad. You could either study online, or save up and become a full time student when you return home. Study the trends in the job markets where you wish to return to and complete some post grad in that area. Most struggling regions have employment agencies that have 'change of career' assistance, including government grants.


Hi crescent thanks for the info! Yeah Im definitely in tough country not many places for growth and in the thick of the opiod crisis. I'm near where they closed that Lordstown GM plant, thousands of people laid off in a day. Sometimes when I am here I forget the rest of the world exists its mainly work grind, if let go, try to find another and so on. The plan is to relocate somewhere, save and to study in my free time. In my area from what i've seen, many of the contracting jobs are work you really hard, pay you very little, and then let you go once the job is done. Its almost impossible to save anything this way and Im pretty exhausted at the end of the day so studying is minimal. Low level IT people are treated poorly here as well. I've been terminated for silly things like carrying bags (when I didnt have a desk) or for like grooming in the bathroom.

So I guess I will have to try to figure out whats next because Im not quite sure if I can handle more of this on and off work where I am not really growing either, and as I am in my early thirties I need to start saving instead of moving in and out of the family home.Not interested in China much as my short trip there didnt leave me with a great impression but if it offers better treatment than Korea I would consider it again! I am teeter tottaring trying to decide since I dont know much besides here and Korea as far as my work history goes. Still trying to reach my contacts here stateside. As far as Korean recruiters only heard from Canadian Connection although I am not really familiar with their jobs in Jeollanamdo or wherever else. I am assuming you worked mainly uni and I think that would be kind of a reach for me since my experience was from a decade ago although I hope they dont offer me just level 1 pay grade jobs.

I know the pay would be low but it'd be okay to do a couple years in a public school or so but really I dont remember much about my first go around there thats why I am kind of seeking recruiters, although most mentioned I need to go straight through Epik. The decision mainly is about whether here or there I can be safely employed for at least a year without worry of being laid off again, and also which place would have the least amount of office politics if you know what I mean. But I am guessing with Korean schools its luck of the draw right. I am not sure what you mean by diversifying my resume, right now my resume mainly just has my contracting jobs and then the couple years I taught in Gyeongnam (I'd prefer some place closer to Seoul or the middle of the country.) But one thing is for sure if I can have a solid year I would definitely make the most of it!
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amorphous154 wrote:
But one thing is for sure if I can have a solid year I would definitely make the most of it!

Sorry to hear about your trials. Sounds like your plan to move is a good one.

I always thought it would be nice to live on the coast. If you live central, especially near Daegu, you will have a super-humid summer to contend with and no easy escape. Regarding work, if you go the institute route, I remember from my time there that Chungdam Institute was highly reputable, and that they looked down on the clowning and games approach. They would likely attract more disciplined students.

What I meant by diversifying, was to seek out non-teaching side jobs such as editing, or voice work. It would likely not come easy, but who knows? Also, if you have an IT background, maybe there is some way you can make that work for you. Most mid-to-large sized municipalities have tourism websites that publish English content.

Maybe you could devise a curriculum to offer technology themed instruction in English. I was in Korea when Apple really started taking off. I came up with an idea for curriculum that taught the basics of Mac OS. I ran it by the powers that be at the hakwan I worked for, and it became a thing. I taught it for 2 hours every Saturday for 12 weeks, and split tuition with the school.

Do some brainstorming. Maybe you can come up with some ideas.
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amorphous154



Joined: 20 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crescent wrote:
amorphous154 wrote:
But one thing is for sure if I can have a solid year I would definitely make the most of it!

Sorry to hear about your trials. Sounds like your plan to move is a good one.



Oh Im sorry if my story comes off as woe is me. My trials arent that bad as I was fortunate enough to get my degree and some work experience under my belt which is a lot more than many people have here. I think sometimes I absorb a lot of the common sentiment of an area. Where I am from there is still a lot of division, tribalism, and political corruption/apathy where some of the neighborhoods look like they are out of a Frank Miller comicbook. That and I have a bad habit of following all the news here a little bit too closely lol. Really if my career goes where I want it to go, I would eventually be probably coming back to my depressed area and teach folks here who werent so lucky. Teach them computer or technology related skills so they can seek employment as well but that is down the road. Imo grassroots or more training is how to make things better because I am not sure if people living in penthouses and island mansions know what is going on down here.

The main issue here is on and off work and also the ability to shut off after work. I did some coding 101 evening courses here last year but my employer was still calling me during class and my family would need me to do this or that. I do really give it my all in every single job so there would be some sleepless nights when I would worry if a system or something would be down or a nagging problem ticket. So eventually I had to drop out of those classes and missed a lot of personal opportunity doing so. And then after fixing all their issues and make sure everyone is up and running, they usually just let you go without even a goodbye. Its more so the distractions and focusing on paying bills here.

I am just contemplating if its silly for me to think like working a couple years abroad will allow me the peace and space so I could better myself professionally through self learning. If I could teach and then have enough in the tank to study for more certifications or a degree in a non-education field in the evening. Or if I should try to relocate to a different city here stateside albeit it is still very difficult for those without a nest egg, network or family support here. I wish I was brilliant as some of the younger generation here, as they multitask and get multiple degrees without any of the slow learning and pains I go through. But as for me I'm all I got really so I just do the best I can. It would be wonderful if I could eventually one day live on the coasts but I cant even imagine how much it would cost and how good I would have to be to do that.

About the centralized location I was looking for, was mainly for access to Seoul. Whatever little Korean I knew is gone, but I do remember Seoul pretty well though. Also in case of emergency I would prefer doctors and whatnot I was familiar with there. Back then I lived in Gyeongsang, and I had to go to Seoul a couple times a month for braces, ent, other stuff so it was quite costly, but in a central location, it would save hundreds I think a month. From what I heard Gyeongsang and Gwangju area are where a lot of recruiters try to place people. I definitely would want to avoid the former if possible, and the latter Im not quite sure but I know both are far from Seoul.

I wouldnt mind teaching primary either, it wouldnt need to be a serious teaching gig or uni. Its quite possible I may want to shift into more of an education career, but really after trying to be an active and productive member of my hometown and not getting much in return here I feel a bit burned out here with my IT work. It is quite sad at times because I know most of the problems are systemic or for corporate cost cutting moves. There are some really good people here just trying to provide for their families.

Its just I am wondering if its worth the risk since in the last 5 years at least I have been pretty much glued to a cubicle working mainly with computers and barely even left the state! So I also have to remember even if I can still teach, and also how comfortable I would be outside of my rustbelt town again because it seems from reading the forums that Korea has changed (perhaps more conservative, competitive, higher standards) from when I last remembered it and didnt want to say completely mess up in interviews hurting my chances if I decided to do so down the road. I tried looking for teaching material I made before, but I had a laptop stolen so I would need to start from scratch. Some of my documents are in my email but they are from circa 2009-10, like my 100 hour tefl certificate. Do you think all these materials would be outdated and epik would frown on someone in my situation? Im also wondering if its too late for spring intake 2019 because I am aware some of the documents take a couple months, and it may be frowned upon to apply late.

Really I think if I can have 1-2 years of solid work and then study time evenings/weekends, I could definitely increase my professional skills considerably that would benefit me and from my local community. I do also know the risks because a bad school or say trying to remember if I had the same energy/enthusiasm as my first go around. I am not as gungho as I used to be but I guess that comes with aging! But it doesnt hurt to put out some apps to say JLP or CDI I guess. I think perhaps if I did even stop over there for work or to visit, everything might come back to me, but yeah looking over everything again it does make me feel like a newbie again!
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isitts



Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amorphous154 wrote:
The plan is to relocate somewhere, save and to study in my free time.

amorphous154 wrote:
I am in my early thirties…

? That’s not old at all. You’re talking like you’re at an age where you have fewer options. I first came to Korea when I was 32 (though, this was 2009 when it was pretty easy to get in)… went to China when I was 38, came back to Korea when I was 40. (pure luck as it was with a school I’d worked with before)…and things have gotten worse than when I left in 2015. So…may stay here a while longer before returning to China or trying somewhere else. You’ve got no business talking like you’re old.
amorphous154 wrote:
Not interested in China much as my short trip there didnt leave me with a great impression but if it offers better treatment than Korea I would consider it again!

It’s a pretty big country. Which part did you go to? I personally think you have better options there than in Korea. Public schools there have low teaching hours, two hour lunch breaks, and long holidays. You’d have plenty of time to do your studying on the side.
amorphous154 wrote:
…I hope they dont offer me just level 1 pay grade jobs.

?? That’s the top of the pay scale. The only way you get more is by getting recontracted with the school or if you stay in the same program (G/EPIK) for subsequent years after Level 1.
amorphous154 wrote:
I am kind of seeking recruiters, although most mentioned I need to go straight through Epik.

Not a good sign. Again, I’d try China.
amorphous154 wrote:
I've been terminated for silly things … like grooming in the bathroom.

Sounds like you went to work looking unpresentable. Could you not groom at home? Easy remedy.
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