Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Toby]

Is it just me or do the requirements for jobs are going up but the salaries aren't?

I have casually been looking at jobs recently, to find them exactly as they were 4 years ago.

But, job specifications seem to be going up.

i.e. BA, but MA preferred.

i.e. At least 2 years teaching in Korea.

i.e. CELTA or equivalent preferred.

i.e. Female preferred.

Despite that, the salaries are ranging from 1.8 - 2.0 depending on experience. 2.0 is too low.

I know that when we advertised for my school, we did highlight two of those four points, but that was only to try and weed out people that evidently hadn't read the ad.. "We need one teacher", having said this we still got applications from couples. We also advertised similar money but did pay more than that due to experience of the teacher we took on.

That aside, when you have accepted the job, in the majority of schools, despite your experience or qualifications, you are still always starting on a low salary here.

Why doesn't it grow year on year? Everything else does, but salaries don't.

[prosodic]

Supply and demand, Toby. Supply and demand.

[Toby]

[prosodic]

Job market in North America ain't all that great.

[VanIslander]

I'm wondering whether the growth over the last few years in anti-Americanism, Chinese language studies and economic troubles might have some effect on the demand for teachers, if not in terms of quantity (less job offers), then in terms of quality (less desire to please foreigners).

At the same time, there are many reasons why the supply of teachers may (or may not) be down, including the highly-publicized North Korean nuclear tension and general post-9/11 insecurity. At least those are factors I know have been considered by prospective teachers.

[Toby]

[Saxiif]

I would guess this is because (at least partly) the pool of people floating around looking for jobs in Korea has more experience on average than the people that were pouring into Korea when the hagwon boom began so that it only makes sense to ask for more experience since now there are actually a number of waygooks who're in Korea and have been here for a while that you can go after.

I'm really looking forward to when the English teaching boom in China really picks up (and when salaries for people teaching in China rise). That's cut the supply of waygooks here off at the knees and give up a good bit more bargaining power.

[Real Reality]

"Salaries are too low in Korea."
It seems I recall mentioning something about this before?

Salaries Frozen
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=21728&highlight=

Does your exp. and ed. really matter in Korea?
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=14296&highlight=

Is your pay equal or better? Really?
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=6675&highlight=

Average salary for employees
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=13572&highlight=

What is your employer's salary scale?
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=11385&highlight=

Korea stands out as having a long scale reaching a much higher level than that of other countries. The starting salary for primary teachers in Korea is $24,140, marginally behind that for Australia at $25,775. Australia ranks 3rd in the starting salary offered to teachers but Australian teachers reach a relatively modest maximum of $36,175 (ranked 12th) quite early in their careers. Korean teachers, on the other hand, reach $39,921 after 15 years and $66,269 at the top of their scale.
http://www.austcolled.com.au/archives/unicorn/unicorn-0700/4McGaw02.html

In Germany, Ireland, South Korea, and Switzerland, among others, teachers earn at least twice the GDP per capita. http://www.veaweteach.org/lopaytch.html

Employment Up, But Mostly in Non-paid and Part-time Sectors
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200405/200405300092.html
Hiring Capacity Worst in 6 Years
The nation's employment capacity dipped to the worst level in six years since the 1997-98 financial crisis.
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200405/kt2004052615052810160.htm

[Paji eh Wong]

Call it market maturation.

There was a similar thread on this a few months ago. I think it was Butterfly who had some good coments.

Aparently 40 years ago, Western Europe was the place to go to teach. You could actually save some money while you did it. Now you make subsistance style wages. Korea is moving in the same direction. The days of 8% economic growth are gone. Salaries will probably stay at the same level for years as inflation catches up, a la Japan.

Bad news bears. But you probably have a decade of gravy training it as is.

Besides, I think a lot of people that are way overpaid. I was my first year.

[Dalton]

No such thing as overpaid. That's an urban myth somatic for the underpaid, overworked and the agenda minded.
The market pays what it can or must.

These speculative posts about more work less pay have been going on for years. Mostly recruiters and management driven. Always at the hiring season. Pay has gone up. I was paid 1.6 in 2000. That was pretty typical. Some jobs offered 1.4 all the way back in 2000. 2.0 was rare. I don't even see 1.6 job advertised anymore. They all start at 1.8 to 2.0 and 2.0 is a 25% increase over 1.6 across four years. That is not a declining wage for an inexperienced worker. 2.0 is common now. 1.4 is unheard of. 2.1 is rearing it's ugly head this hiring season.

My theory is that typical hogwon owners don't understand NA work culture. They blow it and word spreads. 4 years ago Americans were still pretty prominent, then it was Canadians, then Kiwis and Aussies, then S. Afrikaans (correct I hope). Who is left? Countries with citizens willing to come here, in view of the bad rep at home, are dwindling. Pay is going up. The smaller the population the faster the word spreads. No severance, no OT, no holidays, no sick leave, no vacation, sexual harassment, too many hours, too many classes, 19th century attitude towards workers. This hurts the industry and it's maybe only slightly improved over four years ago.

Eventually Korean hogwons may have to learn to adapt their workplace to foreign workers cultures with respect to the foreign worker's culture. Or they can keep increasing pay 25% every 4 years. But what countries are next to draw teachers from? They have the power. On this board people have often said they'll take less pay for better conditions. The Japanese figured it out so the Koreans will too. Eventually. In the meantime just keep going for the job with the lowest hours and the most pay. It'll sink in eventually but the Koreans have to figure it out themselves.

I think wages have the potential to fly very high with a dwindling supply of teachers and an increased demand from parents to have their kids learn English to escape a poor economy. That's why 2.1 is out there today and 2.5 keeps appearing in ads. It takes 2.5 to get attention today. The old, tired, cheap, bait and switch is very much alive here. Brought to you by the same folks who talk about wages going down.

[The Man known as The Man]

[JongnoGuru]

[Dalton]

The bubble burst in 1994 when the won devalued by half or something much worse. I forget the number. At that time the Korean hogwons started treating foreigners better because even they understood the implications of the money not being there. The devaluation of the won started a world wide recession.

As for your pop quiz, sorry but I've never heard of Real reality before. No disrespect intended towards that poster. He did a lot a work for everyone with his post.

[prosodic]

[Dalton]

Thanks Prosidic. I just read about it. I can still see myself reading long articles in the Sunday papers that analyzed it fifteen different ways. I had a business then that suffered from it. Many of my friends businesses and jobs were hurt back then. Being here must have suc ked big time. Koreans have told me stories about selling all their family jewelry to buy food. And then here we are today.