Korean Job Discussion Forums

[fidel]

I firmly believe that a lot of the social problems in Korea can in some part be rectified by a healthy show on intolerence. Sounds strange, tolerance is seen as a virtue by most, but from my time in Korea I've found it to be the opposite.

Case in point, outside my apartment is a park that runs along a river, most of the day and especially in the evenings the paths are filled with kangnamians enjoying themselves, exercising, playing with infants, toddlers and children. Motorbikes are expressly forbidden to use the paths because of the large number of children yet every night some tossers rides their bikes between the toddlers and children and nobody says anything, except me! My son is only 11 months old and has no real sense of danger and like all kids he changes directions, runs and moves without looking for approaching bikes. I have started a personal crusade and have been standing in front of motorbikes stopping them in their paths and shouting expletives at them. My wife thinks I'm crazy, but I'm a little like T.S Garp and can't stomach the thought that my child, or any child, might be run down by some freak flouting the rules. I have had several major shouting matches that have almost turned to violence but I will not sit back and put my child in danger. The weird thing is no-one else says anything. My wife says the women are too afraid, but the men who are out there in the evening with their children have no excuse.

Same goes for the sales trucks, loud people returning home at night, parking across pedestrian crossings, rising suicide rates, wholesale traffic violations, corruption etc. If there is no public condemnation then the cycle will continue

Koreans need to gain a sense of intolerance and let the lawbreakers know that their is a new sherrif in town and no longer will they let slide civil disobediance. Meanwhile I will do my bit and try to keep the paths free of motorbikes for the enjoyment and safety of all.

[VanIslander]

[cheeky monkey]

i have to say that on a certain level i agree with you. people seem unconcerned about the personal safety of anyone but themselves, which i find totally despicable. and this extends to other areas as well. in addition to giving a piece of my mind to motorcyclists on the sidewalks (yes, this is illegal, despite the fact that they often assume the right of way), i occasionally give someone a talking to about tossing trash on the street (sidewalk, beach, etc.) this is disgusting, and just a tiny little bit of social responsiblity by each individual could turn korea from a giant trash heap into a clean and beautiful country.

i think that's just it: there is minimal social responsibility in this "me first" society, down to small things like holding the door a second longer for the person behind you, rather than letting it slam in their face. there exists no accountability for these "insignificant" actions, and so people just continue to do them.

honestly, most of this stuff i don't mind, it's there culture, yada yada, but when it comes to personal safety, i think other people should be responsible for their own negligent actions. maybe that sentiment stems from my own litigation-happy american roots, but all the same. if someone ran down my kid while riding illegally in the park, i can guarantee you they would be wishing the cops could get there fast enough.

[inkoreaforgood]

Okay, I gotta agree with this too. If Koreans would take a bit of a personal stand here and there, then things would much better here. If police would crack down on drivers in a serious manner, traffic accidents would occur less often, less speeding and crazy driving, etc.. Won't happen though, because Koreans fear a return to the semi police state they used to live in. Critizing individuals who put others in danger (ie stupid motorcyclists on sidewalks, parks, etc.) would be nice too, except those people are low on the ladder in this society. Who knows, some of them have probably spent time in prison, and that's why they are out delivering food and whatnot instead of working an office job.

It would be really cool to see an average Korean stand up and say, "that's enough, you can't do that, you might hurt others!!!". But society here is not about the individual. They won't do it on their own. Put a group together though and you'll see results.

[dogbert]

[rapier]

I agree with the OP, well done.
However i would add, that shouting expletives just makes you look like some crazy foreigner that nobody will take notice of. How about holding a placard in front of them and calmly stating your views..would probably go down better. Be direct and composed. Angry and arm-waving engenders only a similar response.

[captain kirk]

'...Koreans fear a return to the semi police state they used to live in'.
Good point. These are freedom days and anything goes.
Personally, I like the disregard of others unless one knows them because it's space. Speaking of space throw in the tendency to have people crammed together. If everyone was irritable and setting each other straight life would be an obstacle course.
But the OP is looking out for his kid and it's a problem.
In the case of Koreans who know each other I've heard from a Korean that 'Koreans tend to advise each other'. Based on who's older, who's doing the advising.
I've been out walking to the pcbang and back late at night and encountered SPEEDING cars. Streaking down the empty road. They see me but don't slow. Like the OP I regard them as self-centered subhumans and usually spit so that it lands on their car. If that's the kind of m-bike driving he's talking about at the park I'm there, can relate.

[inkoreaforgood]

I wasn't excusing their behaviour, just pointing out why Koreans don't stand up to those who are endangering others. Society and the individual, here that means if you break the rules, no one will stand up to you as an individual. Also, all the 'bikers' do it, even though the danger is to themselves and others. That's a group unto itself. No one is going to stand up to a group on their own here, because it's pointless. One person is not going to achieve anything (Korean pov).

What society will allow here is for like minded individuals to get together and form a group and take action. Good leadership is needed, since it takes a fairly agitated person to join or start such a group, which usually means that group is going to filled with some pissed off individuals. ie, the OP running around like a madman swearing at strangers. I do envy him for his persistence. Me, I would have given up going to the park altogether and found another spot to take the family. Or complained to the local cops until they did something about it. Or had signs posted, or, or, or!!! As Dr. Phil says, "How's that working for you?".

[PEIGUY]

what you do is when one of those guys comes along on a scooter stick your arm out and close line him! i'm so tempted to do that those those crazy idiots who drive on the sidewalks!!

[weatherman]

There seems to be no real public opinion in korea when issues need to be addressed. There is lots of emotion on issues, but no public opinion that is needed for change.

[tommynomad]

I hear you, OP. Just today a co-worker with kids was bemoaning the morons who "wear" their helmets perched on their heads instead of strapping them on: "essentially, they're creating an additional projectile for when the inevitable accident happens, and I'm not interested in seeing that missile hit my 3-year-old."

I simply ignore the "meep-meep" of sidewalk mopeds, and more often than not try to take up _more_ space, forcing them onto the road. I rode my bike (bicycle) here for 8 months, and unless I was on a side-side-side road, I took the middle of the lane every time. Occasionally, some driver would honk at me (usually at a stoplight). I'd calmly turn around and smile, or wave. If he was belligerent, I'd simply indicate that I was in the middle of the lane to stay, and that if he wanted to pass me, he could change lanes.

Though I must admit that all of this beats riding a bicycle back home, where in addition to insults, I have had launched at me: matches (lit), cigarettes (lit), stones, golf balls, cans (empty and full), batteries (AA and C), & spit. And I don't even break the law when I ride. sheesh.

[Cedar]

I tell people to move over on the subway when 6 people take up the 7 people long bench. I tell people they are in no smoking areas. I tell motorcycles and cars to get off the sidewalk. I am very very mean to motorists that pull through the cross walk despite bikes or people approaching (when it's still green to cross there, mind you, not when someone is crossing at the last minute). I tell them to pick up their trash, I tell them to turn off the sound on their cell phone game (on the bus/subway), etc etc etc.

In short, as long as you are firm (but polite), I think why not. And you know what? No one ever gets in my face about it. People usually apologize (even the motorists in the cross walk, and I -really- am not so polite there, cause they usually scared me). I think the original poster was right on. A bit more of an attitude that someone else around them disapproves and voila, more consciousness in their own actions.