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The psychology of obligation
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bits



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Daegu, South Korea

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:43 pm    Post subject: The psychology of obligation Reply with quote

Maybe I am too sensitive. But, do you believe that Korean hagwon owners sometime push things on you (gifts, free food), because they know you will feel obligated to repay them?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first response was, "Wow! Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth!"

I do think that is too cynical a way to look at it. IMO Korea is a more gift-giving society than most Western countries. It does set up obligations, but I don't think it's fair to look at it that way. It can and should be seen as a gesture of good will.
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kangnam mafioso



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: Teheranno

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a gift-giving culture. Get used to it. When in Rome...
Why don't you give them something for once? Bring in some donuts or bagels for the wangjamnim and all the office agashis.
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weatherman



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know somebody had this up before, but it goes well here. Check out this little sample and be sure to read the whole thing.

http://www.popmatters.com/columns/smith/050302.shtml

Quote:
The taxing hospitality I met with takes an ingratiatingly self-sacrificial form, the kind found in people who throw enormous dinner parties but disdain any much-needed aid with the pile of dishes afterward. Such tasks are so ridiculous for the person performing them that they become almost impossible to appreciate; the sacrifice is too absurd, too unreal, and too easily avoidable. As an example: after a couple weeks of driving a half hour out of her way to chauffeur me to school, my boss decided that I knew the city well enough for me to travel on my own. Without much trouble I walked the five minutes to the bus stop and then, 15 minutes later, arrived at school, well prepared and early for my first class.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kangnam mafioso wrote:
This is a gift-giving culture. Get used to it. When in Rome...
Why don't you give them something for once? Bring in some donuts or bagels for the wangjamnim and all the office agashis.

Thats just it though- have you ever tried giving gifts or flattering Koreans? They won't accept it, but they expect you to and work 24 hours a day by way of thankyou for their generous gift of spam.

Director: You very handsome boy. Have some nuts and some soju.
ESL teacher: Ok, thanks..
Director: So, can you work 10 hours on Saturday and Sunday?
Esl teacher: err...not really...
Director: You very very handsome!! Remember when paid for your night at the booking club? Have a crate of Soju! See you sunday, we have 8 extra classes.
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manlyboy



Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a huge turnover of staff at my school this term, so my wife insisted that I bring gifts to break the ice with the new people. I wasn't comfortable with it at all. It felt like a cheap, ingratiating tactic. But my wife insisted, so I did it. When I laid a fancy tray of biscuits out in front of the 6th grade teachers (feeling like a brown-nosed gnome), to my utter surprise their faces lit up like children and they started squealing with delight. Confused Then, they all looked at me with beaming approval Smile .

Lesson learned on my part.
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Mashimaro



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the korean staff at the hagwon work harder and longer than you and get paid less. Show them your appreciate that now and again.

Last edited by Mashimaro on Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AJRimmer



Joined: 31 Jan 2004

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:

Director: Remember when paid for your night at the booking club?


I'd work a Sunday for that
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bits



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Daegu, South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:19 am    Post subject: obligation Reply with quote

Mashimaro wrote:
All the korean staff at the hagwon work harder and longer than you and get paid less. Show them your appreciate that now and again.


That may be true in your case. I don't it is necessarily true in all cases.

manly boy wrote "When I laid a fancy tray of biscuits out in front of the 6th grade teachers (feeling like a brown-nosed gnome), to my utter surprise their faces lit up like children and they started squealing with delight. Then, they all looked at me with beaming approval"

This is a good thing as long as you bringing the right intentions with the giving. If you think to yourself "now these little hellions better do as I say" or even worse "oh, so they like cookies, I know how I can get on their good side in the future (sustain my own livlihood at this job, get approval from other blah, blah)

My first question was too general. What I really wanted to say is "Do you think Koreans over do it?" and "Do they give at inapproriate times?"
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peppermint



Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the sense of obligation that does come with recieving a gift does take some of the joy out of it. I like giving gifts just because, not because I have to.
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Homer
Guest




PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My first question was too general. What I really wanted to say is "Do you think Koreans over do it?" and "Do they give at inapproriate times?"


That is a very broad question my friend. Laughing

Do they overdoe it? Some do but most don't.

Do they give at inappropriate times?

Give to who?
Define inapropriate.
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Reflections



Joined: 04 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Rimmer I concur, I to would work a Sunday in return for a night in a booking club. But at the bottom of the contract where the little dotted line is located, I would also include a clause:

"The Booking Club has to be located in the Gangnam District".

The reason for this is simple, the times that I have been shouted a night out in those places, the quality of the girls is soooo much better on the south side.
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I_Am_Wrong



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: whatever

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
kangnam mafioso wrote:
This is a gift-giving culture. Get used to it. When in Rome...
Why don't you give them something for once? Bring in some donuts or bagels for the wangjamnim and all the office agashis.

Thats just it though- have you ever tried giving gifts or flattering Koreans? They won't accept it, but they expect you to and work 24 hours a day by way of thankyou for their generous gift of spam.

Director: You very handsome boy. Have some nuts and some soju.
ESL teacher: Ok, thanks..
Director: So, can you work 10 hours on Saturday and Sunday?
Esl teacher: err...not really...
Director: You very very handsome!! Remember when paid for your night at the booking club? Have a crate of Soju! See you sunday, we have 8 extra classes.


Why are you constantly hung up on such inane stereotypes? Get over yourself for five cents and chill out a bit. I've never had a problem giving gifts to people in Korea and I know a lot of other people likewise. Maybe the problem is you give really shitty gifts?....or have you ever actually given a gift to a Korean....or better yet have you ever even opened stubborn ass enough to have a real relationship with a Korean? Wait a sec...I forgot you've come over here to convert and show these SAVAGES the way right? They're all just idiots right? Get a life holmes.
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Reflections



Joined: 04 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I tend to side with Rapier there.

After travelling and living in quite a few different countries and comparing them to Korea; I've learnt that Korea is one of the few places that inane generalisations stick like mud.

'The gift giving culture' in Korea or whatever people care to label it, does carry with it the burden of reciprocation. The times that I received sizeable gifts from Koreans, there was some expecation of giving something back, that I learnt a little later on.

HOWEVER, I'm not saying its a bad thing or good thing; but I found it to be a fact of life here.

I don't think that its some foreigners inane imagination/generalisation.

On occassions when I have given 'sizeable' gifts to work staff or friends for Christmas/New Year, I always get the same response, why?

So if I receive a sizeable gift from a Korean, I will immediately ask why? So as there is no confusion later on. So, I now give small gifts more often and everyone seems to be more comfortable with that, my wallet included>

[/i]
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bits



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Daegu, South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer wrote:
Quote:
My first question was too general. What I really wanted to say is "Do you think Koreans over do it?" and "Do they give at inapproriate times?"


That is a very broad question my friend. Laughing

Do they overdoe it? Some do but most don't.

Do they give at inappropriate times?

Give to who?
Define inapropriate.



Inappropriate would be at a time when they expect something of you and instead of asking you to do it, they try to persuade with dinner/ a movie. I have found that once I accept a gift, (because in Korea, I was told it was rude not to accept gifts, so I have been doing so) I have to repay them in some way.

When I first came to Korea I had a difficult time communicating with the Wonjonnim and that was my fault and probably led to some presumptious feelings of ill intention.

Thinking about the places I have worked before I came to Korea, I enjoyed my time the most when people were being up front with me. Sometimes that meant being critical of me in a constructive way. But then when I performed well, I knew where the gift was coming from. Things are good, but I am still looking for a little more honesty here in Korea. To me, that is a more meaningful than getting a gift I didn't deserve.
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