Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Derrek]

Imagine the media asked for your comments on the theme: "Korea -- Hub of Asia."

As a foriegner, what would you say about it? Is it laughable? Is it possible? What constructive criticism do you have to offer on this subject?

I am asking because I made my feelings known about it (pertaining to the hotmail/hanmail e-mail blocking situation) in an opinion piece to a local newspaper recently. Now one of the major networks in Korea would like to interview me about what I said, along with some other non-Korean people they have lined up.

Anything you'd like said that I might not have thought of -- please post here. I am interested in what others have to say about it.

[shakuhachi]

Some things you can say:

1. Hub of Asia represents the (�̻�) ideal and not the reality (����) of Korea at this moment.

2. Since Korea is putting so much emphasis on Information Technology to in their 'Hub of Asia' campaign, it is strange that foreigners in Korea and people overseas who may want to use Korea IT services cannot due to not having a residents number. Korea is the only country in the world that requires a residency number for regular online transactions.

3. Korean email services often reject ordinary non spam mails from hotmail etc.

There are many more points you could make I suppose... but whether it would get past the uri nara censors is another thing.

[Pyongshin Sangja]

Hubs remain fixed in place while everything happens around them. Seems to fit.

[peemil]

Impossible.

Absolutely impossible.

There is no way that this country will ever be a hub of anything.

I'll give you an example of something that just happened yesterday.

Hanaro Telecom, the company that I get my internet access through has a very glossy web site. It's lovely and it's in English if you click the appropriate link.

Just yesterday I had problems with my bill so I looked up the website to see who I could call. The website assures us foreigners that it is so easy to communicate with the company assuring us that there is somewhere there who speaks English.

I've been in Korea a long while now so I know that this is hogwash. It's not going to be that easy. It never is. So I called up the company. Got through eventually and the operator picks up the phone.

"Oh hello..."

Girl absolutely horrified that there is a foreigner on the other end of the phone.

"Hello..."

"Just a minute..."

On hold for a good four minutes...

"Hello."

Another horrified girl...

"Just a minute..."

On hold again for another five minutes...

"Hello... Does anyone there speak English?"

"Hello... I will be calling you back ok?"

"But you don't have my number."

"Ok..."

Strained silence as girl mumbles about...

"Hello?!?"

"Yes... Hello?!?"

"Call you back..."

By this time I was starting to get a little cranky. I am a real sticky one for getting whatever a company says they are going to give you and a good fiteen minutes on the phone on hold is really starting to jar me.

"Just a minute..."

"Oh jeez... Don't hang up?!?"

Nope... On hold again...

We eventually get through again to another girl with middle school, heavy on rote memorisation English but it's like talking to a brick wall. She can waffle one hundred memorised sentences but still can't understand a simple English statement like, "How are you."

I think to myself... I'll see what the deal is here. So I tried to explain my problem to her, but she has no idea what I am saying... Eventually I just gave up... What else can you do?

It's like that with everything. All these companies like to say that they are world par and everything but once you step past the glossy web sites and pamphlets with the beautiful foreigners looking like they're really having a great time all you get is someone who just was feeding you a line.

Don't know if that helps.

[fidel]

Geographically Korea is in the right place to be a 'hub', however labor militancy, lack of transparancy, percieved beaucracy, corruption, foreigner unfriendly policies, unaesthetic cities , pollution, heavy traffic (creates logistical problems), lack of law enforcement, and low English abilities are some of the major barriers acting against Korea.

[peemil]

Can I add some more...

"The Hub of Asia" is something that I have a nice laugh about sometimes at night before I got to bed.

"Hub" implies that you should be able to get everything and anything here. Now I don't really know what it's like in Seoul, I don't live there, never have, never will. I live in Ulsan.

Up to about a year and a half ago you couldn't even get a decent block of cheese in this town. The fact that you can't get much of anything that we take for granted in many other countries, especially food stuffs just goes to show how far this country is from being a "Hub of anything."

Food is a really a prime example of Korean mentality. It has to be from Korea to be good enough. So we have endless aisles of pepper paste and gim. Wonderful... If it's going to be a hub the populace has to open up to the idea and the goods from other countries. It just has too. You can't be a hub and just be selective about what comes and goes.

Take New York for example. Now there is hub. Everything and anything you want right there. That's why people take shopping trips and holidays to that city, despite the traffic and many of the other problems of society and big cities.

Take another example... I had to buy a car after the GF refused to get on my motorbike... Getting a registration for that is a completely different story. But the car... That took days of just pushing paper everywhere. And the fact that I needed a Korean just irked me.

I am an independent person and I've worked really hard in this country to make sure that I never need ask someone for help. But I hate it when you've got to get "your Korean" to help you out because the City officials are so bedazzled that a foreigner might want to drive a car.

Even when we went to get the car done the Korean was like... "Why does he want to drive?" Umm... I live half an hour out of the city... Same reason that you do...

Arghh... It's just an infuriating place to live. I've travelled the world. I'll tell you that much is true. I've lived in lots of countries and have done it alone in a lot of cases. When I first got here neither my boss or anyone at the school spoke English, so I've had to figure out a lot for myself... In the beginning for a long time I had no help. That's cool. I'm used to that... But never anywhere else in the world have I felt like I was so pushing against a brick wall that just wasn't going to move.

Hub... Should be "Snub of Asia."

[Demophobe]

I am interested in what you said. Could you post your article or tell us where we can read it?

[iiicalypso]

I think that Korea has the ability to create a "hub" but I doubt that they would have any idea how to run it. Clearly this country has shown the ability to develop an infrastructure and build buildings and highways seemingly overnight. At the same time, though, there are buildings with DSL lines and no hot water.

It is the attitudes that must change, not the infrastructure. I make a great effort to work within the parameters of the Korean culture because I am a lowly teacher. There is no way that a Fortune 500 CEO would put up with the day to day nonsense that I deal with. Why must I "negotiate" a taxi fare when there is a perfectly good meter to use? Why do I pay a different price for the same package of aspirin?

Finally, there is a huge gap between rhetoric and reality. So much time and money is wasted on huffing and puffing. I saw recently that the mayor of Seoul is planning to spend tax money to try and stop the administrative capital move. Why? Instead of developing plans to make Seoul into a true "hub" by developing arts projects or parks, he is wasting energy fighting what is likely a lost cause. Do people look down on New York because Albany is the capital? How about LA being harmed by legislators meeting in Sacramento? These are two cities that are world class because they have moved beyond a one dimentional view of what a great city is.

Sorry if this is a bit rambling. I truly like it here, and I have found far more people who are generous of time and spirit than are pigheaded, but these are issues that must be raised if Seoul and Korea are to take a larger role on the international stage.

[jazblanc77]

[peppermint]

Korea really needs to open itself up to foreign cultures and people, and get a solid grasp of the diversity that's outside their own country before they begin to work on this hub idea.

They also need to get more adjusted to having foreigners here. I can accept drive by shoutings of "welcome to Korea" and the hello chorus as quirks, but imagine it would seem to the average upper level exec to be chased out of his appartment complex by kids chanting "waygookin, waygookin" every morning.

Take a look at this article, and keep in mind the guy delivering the speech has lived here since 1971.

[peemil]

[Ilsanman]

Stop pissing on the sidewalk.

That's my $0.02

[manlyboy]

I think the Songdo project could be a big success in creating a corporate hub. Tax breaks, freedom from the Korean bureaucracy, foreigners can own land and run schools and hospitals. It's all set to be a bi-lingual free economic zone. You can bet the Koreans will finish building it on time and on budget, too.

[Real Reality]

peppermint,
Thank you for the link to the article: Underwood Urges 'True' Globalization.
The professor implied that the insular nature of the Korean people serves as a stumbling block to globalization, urging them to open their minds to foreigners who are interested in the nation. "A lot of naturalized foreigners in Korea are still regarded as foreigners, not as Koreans. This shows how narrow-minded Koreans are," he said.
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200409/kt2004092115561611960.htm

peemil wrote,
"But never anywhere else in the world have I felt like I was so pushing against a brick wall that just wasn't going to move. Hub... Should be 'Snub of Asia.'"

Inadequate foreign schools
the nation remains famously unfriendly to expatriates in spite of its ubiquitous slogan to emerge as a regional business hub.
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2004/05/10/200405100010.asp

Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448

"there were no standards set here for dwelling places."
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200406/24/200406242352057609900090409041.html

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200406/kt2004062418051911980.htm

from Demophobe
Posted: June 03, 2004 Post subject: Just why is Korea so dirty?
Korea, in my view, is filthy. Garbage everywhere, the water is beyond even boiling for safety (again, my opinion...I boil the bottled water), the air in a lot of the country is unsafe, the farmers fields are covered in plastic, cans, buckets and styrofoam, nooks and crannies between buildings are used as landfills, building interiors are always covered in a layer of dirt/dust...I really just don't understand it.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=21798

Dunkin Donuts has no Donuts
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=26786

Have you ever been paid late?
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=18732

[endo]

Great thread. I have learned a lot. Just curious though, what would all of you consider the present "Hub of Asia'?