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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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 Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:29 am Post subject: A Conversation with the Dalai Lama |
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A Conversation with the Dalai Lama
TIME talks with the Tibetan spiritual leader
BY ALEX PERRY
Monday, Oct. 18, 2004
When China invaded Tibet in 1950, it promised to bring modernity to the isolated feudal kingdom. Instead, it brought a reign of religious and cultural repression that drove the Tibetan government into exile, including its supreme religious and political leader. Discovered as the 14th incarnation of Tibetan Buddhism's high priest at age 2 and enthroned at 4, the Dalai Lama escaped to India in 1959 and has never returned. After 45 years of trying to preserve a nation without a land, the Dalai Lama is grappling with the future of Tibet in a startlingly pragmatic way one that risks alienating his own people, his international supporters and even his family. In a candid conversation with TIME's Alex Perry at his cottage in McLeod Ganj, India, the Dalai Lama admits that he now believes the only way forward for the Tibetan people may be to "remain within China" while hoping China preserves Tibet's unique culture.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501041025-725176,00.html?cnn=yes |
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trevorcollins
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:55 am Post subject: Re: A Conversation with the Dalai Lama |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
the Dalai Lama admits that he now believes the only way forward for the Tibetan people may be to "remain within China" while hoping China preserves Tibet's unique culture.
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Never gonna happen at the rate the Chinese are flooding the region with Hans. At this point, parts of Western Sichuan province, northern Sikkim, Ladakh, Mustang etc. are probably more Tibetan than much of Tibet itself. Sad, but I guess at least he's pragmatic and is smart enough to start working within the framework he has rather than just sitting around with his thumb up his ass, wearing a Free Tibet t-shirt. |
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Wisco Kid
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Location: Changwon
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:04 am Post subject: |
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TIME: What do you see in the future?
Dalai Lama: If you look at the Tibet situation locally, then it's hopeless. But from a wider perspective, it's hopeful. That's my last words on this. Not bad. |
I think this is very true. As Trevor Collins pointed out, Tibetans are outnumbered by Han Chinese in Tibet now. So even if Tibet became an idependent democracy tomorrow, the Chinese population would rule the government.
Everything is impermanent. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Two years ago, Buddhist monk and teacher Tenzin Delek Rinpoche was arrested by Chinese authorities and sentenced to death for a crime he did not commit. Time is running out for Tenzin - he could be executed by the Chinese government as early as December of this year.
FLASH VIDEO ...
http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org/downloads/tenzin_content.html
Help us make sure Tenzin does not disappear forever!
Fill out the fields at the right to send a letter asking the Chinese government to spare Tenzin's life.
http://actionnetwork.org/campaign/SaveTenzin |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Two years ago, Buddhist monk and teacher Tenzin Delek Rinpoche was arrested by Chinese authorities and sentenced to death for a crime he did not commit. Time is running out for Tenzin - he could be executed by the Chinese government as early as December of this year.
FLASH VIDEO ...
http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org/downloads/tenzin_content.html
Help us make sure Tenzin does not disappear forever!
Fill out the fields at the right to send a letter asking the Chinese government to spare Tenzin's life.
http://actionnetwork.org/campaign/SaveTenzin |
Done. Thank you. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:54 am Post subject: |
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>. Thanks desultude ( as i'm sure the political prisoner Tenzin Delek would thank you as well ) ...
NAMASTE.
��I am completely innocent��I have always said we should not raise our hand at others. It is sinful��. I have neither distributed letters or pamphlets nor planted bombs secretly. I have never even thought of such things, and I have no intention to hurt others.�� Tenzin Delek Rinpoche
http://guerrillanews.com/headlines/headline.php?id=399 |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Its unlike me, but I sent a message, too. I guess his own words just captured me, and that trip to Bawmosa Temple in Busan rubbed off on me. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| like Chistopher Hitchens says, the lama sucks and is the most overhyped man on the planet. |
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fondasoape
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Personally, BB, I'd rather see Tibet return to its roots as a feudal theocracy -- there are so few 'real' places in Asia anymore. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| ha ha, that is true. good point |
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nasigoreng
Joined: 14 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| there are so few 'real' places in Asia anymore. |
nothing is real in this illusory existence. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| like Chistopher Hitchens says, the lama sucks and is the most overhyped man on the planet. |
Care to expand on that? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:19 am Post subject: |
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>. Anyone remember which movie this classic little scene comes from ... ???
Carl Spackler:
So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald ... striking.
So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one -- big hitter, the Lama -- long, into a ten-thousand foot crevice, right at the base of this glacier. And do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga ... gunga -- gunga galunga.
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consiousness."
So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
http://www.ifilm.com/viralvideo?ifilmid=2654943 |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Bobster:
Hitchens hates all religions. That why he was such a soft touch for the anti-Islamic rhetoric that was used to sell the current war to liberals. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say that he was one of the chief rhetoriticians. Anyway, here's his piece on the Dalai Lama:
http://weecheng.com/views/world/tibet/material.htm
| Quote: |
His material highness
FAR FROM HIS HOLIER-THAN-ALL IMAGE, THE DALAI LAMA SUPPORTS SUCH QUESTIONABLE CAUSES AS INDIA'S NUCLEAR TESTING, SEX WITH PROSTITUTES AND ACCEPTING DONATIONS FROM A JAPANESE TERRORIST CULT.
BY CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS | The Dalai Lama has come out in support of the thermonuclear tests recently conducted by the Indian state, and has done so in the very language of the chauvinist parties who now control that state's affairs. The "developed" countries, he says, must realize that India is a major contender and should not concern themselves with its internal affairs. This is a perfectly realpolitik statement, so crass and banal and opportunist that it would not deserve any comment if it came from another source.
"Think different," says the ungrammatical Apple Computer advertisement that features the serene visage of His Holiness. Among the untested assumptions of this billboard campaign is the widely and lazily held belief that "Oriental" religion is different from other faiths: less dogmatic, more contemplative, more ... transcendental. This blissful, thoughtless exceptionalism has been conveyed to the West through a succession of mediums and narratives, ranging from the pulp novel "Lost Horizon," by James Hilton (creator of Mr. Chips as well as Shangri-La), to the memoir "Seven Years in Tibet," by SS veteran Heinrich Harrer, prettified for the screen by Brad Pitt. China's foul conduct in an occupied land, combined with a Hollywood cult that almost exceeds the power of Scientology, has fused with weightless Maharishi and Bhagwan-type babble to create an image of an idealized Tibet and of a saintly god-king. So perhaps the Apple injunction to think differently is worth heeding.
The greatest triumph that modern PR can offer is the transcendent success of having your words and actions judged by your reputation, rather than the other way about. The "spiritual leader" of Tibet has enjoyed this unassailable status for some time now, becoming a byword and synonym for saintly and ethereal values. Why this doesn't put people on their guard I'll never know. But here are some other facts about the serene leader that, dwarfed as they are by his endorsement of nuclear weapons, are still worth knowing and still generally unknown.
Shoko Asahara, leader of the Supreme Truth cult in Japan and spreader of sarin nerve gas on the Tokyo subway, donated 45 million rupees, or about 170 million yen (about $1.2 million), to the Dalai Lama and was rewarded for his efforts by several high-level meetings with the divine one.
Steven Seagal, the robotic and moronic "actor" who gave us "Hard to Kill" and "Under Siege," has been proclaimed a reincarnated lama and a sacred vessel or "tulku" of Tibetan Buddhism. This decision, ratified by Penor Rinpoche, supreme head of the Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism, was initially received with incredulity by Richard Gere, who had hitherto believed himself to be the superstar most favored. "If someone's a tulku, that's great," he was quoted as saying. "But no one knows if that's true." How insightful, if only accidentally. At a subsequent Los Angeles appearance by the Dalai Lama, Seagal was seated in the front row and Gere two rows back, thus giving the latter's humility and submissiveness a day at the races. Suggestions that Seagal's fortune helped elevate him to the Himalayan status of tulku are not completely discounted even by some adepts and initiates.
Supporters of the Dorge Shugden deity -- a "Dharma protector" and an ancient object of worship and propitiation in Tibet -- have been threatened with violence and ostracism and even death following the Dalai Lama's abrupt prohibition of this once-venerated godhead. A Swiss television documentary graphically intercuts footage of His Holiness, denying all knowledge of menace and intimidation, with scenes of his followers' enthusiastically promulgating "Wanted" posters and other paraphernalia of excommunication and persecution.
While he denies being a Buddhist "Pope," the Dalai Lama is never happier than when brooding in a celibate manner on the sex lives of people he has never met. "Sexual misconduct for men and women consists of oral and anal sex," he has repeatedly said in promoting his book on these matters. "Using one's hand, that is sexual misconduct." But, as ever with religious stipulations, there is a nutty escape clause. "To have sexual relations with a prostitute paid by you and not by a third person does not constitute improper behavior." Not all of this can have been said just to placate Richard Gere, or to attract the royalties from "Pretty Woman."
I have talked to a few Dorge Shugden adherents, who seem sincere enough and who certainly seem frightened enough, but I can't go along with their insistence on the "irony" of all this. Buddhism can be as hysterical and sanguinary as any other system that relies on faith and tribe. Lon Nol's Cambodian army was Buddhist at least in name. Solomon Bandaranaike, first elected leader of independent Sri Lanka, was assassinated by a Buddhist militant. It was Buddhist-led pogroms against the Tamils that opened the long and disastrous communal war that ruins Sri Lanka to this day. The gorgeously named SLORC, the military fascism that runs Burma, does so nominally as a Buddhist junta. I have even heard it whispered that in old Tibet, that pristine and contemplative land, the lamas were the allies of feudalism and unsmilingly inflicted medieval punishments such as blinding and flogging unto death.
Yet the entire Western mass media is uncritically at the service of a mere mortal who, at the very least, proclaims the utter nonsense of reincarnation and who affirms the sinister if not indeed crazy belief that death is but a stage in a grand cycle of what appears to be futility and subjection. What need, then, to worry about nuclear weaponry, or sectarian frenzy, or the sale of indulgences to men of the stamp of Steven Seagal? "Harmony" will doubtless kick in. During his visit to Beijing, our sentimental Baptist hypocrite of a president turned to his dictator host, recommended that he meet with the Dalai Lama and assured him that the two of them would get on well. That might easily turn out to be the case. Both are very much creatures of the material world.
SALON | July 13, 1998
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Last edited by On the other hand on Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Here is a Tibetan responding to the above piece.
http://archive.salon.com/letters/1998/07/16letters.html
| Quote: |
I would have welcomed any unbiased critical analysis of not just the Dalai Lama, but of the entire Tibetan community. We Tibetans have suffered much on account of our past isolationist policies and so we certainly need to be told when the emperor is not wearing his clothes.
However, Christopher Hitchens' article, far from doing that, picks up on a few pieces of disinformation and expands them to support his case, the purpose of which is nothing but to vilify the Dalai Lama. Let me explain.
On the nuclear test issue: It is evident that Hitchens has not seen the Dalai Lama's full statement on his reaction to the Indian nuclear tests. I was privileged to be present on May 13 in Madison, Wisc., when the Dalai Lama answered a reporter's question on the issue. The Dalai Lama at no time supported the test. He said he was saddened by it and mentioned that he was for complete nuclear disarmament. However, he did mention that it was undemocratic for a few nuclear powers to be asking others not to indulge in actions they themselves are undertaking. Is that supporting India's nuclear tests?
On the Steven Seagal issue: The Dalai Lama is nowhere involved in the picture concerning the recognition of the actor as a reincarnated being. Steven Seagal was recognized by his teacher, Penor Rinpoche. While the issue may appear controversial, it has nothing to do with the Dalai Lama.
It is also unbecoming for the writer to denigrate the Buddhist concept of reincarnation, as if this was something started by the Dalai Lama for his own benefit. It is the writer's choice not to believe in this theory but he has no right to denigrate our religion.
Finally, the whole tone of the article is to undermine the institution of the Dalai Lama rather than to give a dispassionate appraisal. The reference to the Dorje Shugden controversy only furthers my suspicion as to the motives of the writer. He fails to mention the killing of three prominent Tibetan monks in Dharamsala, India, at the suspected hand of some Dorje Shugden practitioners.
I do not think the article adds any credibility to Salon's image.
-- Bhuchung Tsering
Washington
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