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andrew
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: ..... |
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Last edited by andrew on Fri May 01, 2009 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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inkoreafornow
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Location: Gyeonggido
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| I think this article would do more good if it were written in Korean. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Read that in the Herald today.
I'm inclined to believe a lot of Koreans would agree with him but don't speak up for fear of being un-patriotic and not with the, "Korea number 1!!" program.
It's ridiculous though. I can rant all I like to my fellow Irishmen about the negatives of Ireland and they will either nod their heads in agreement or disagree. Yet the discourse is possible. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Excellent article! Thanks for posting it. I also think it would be nice for a Korean-language newspaper to publish this, but I wonder
a) if the writer would be willing to put his name to the same article in Korean
b) if the newspaper would even publish it
c) what the reaction would be from the public
d) how the writer would then be treated
However, just seeing a Korean write an article like this is a long-awaited good sign. |
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plato's republic
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Ancient Greece
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Nice article but it won't change anything. Let's face facts. |
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Return Jones
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Location: I will see you in far-off places
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| I think it's fake. Everything he mentions is just too obvious. Even Koreans that have lived overseas typically remain silent and stoic on such street-level irritants in everyday Korean life. To me, it reads like a letter a bratty westerner with too much time on his hands would write. Perhaps someone on this board. I hardly think writing a letter about scooters on the sidewalk would be a cathartic exercise for a typical Korean. Who knows.... |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Return Jones wrote: |
| I think it's fake. Everything he mentions is just too obvious. Even Koreans that have lived overseas typically remain silent and stoic on such street-level irritants in everyday Korean life. To me, it reads like a letter a bratty westerner with too much time on his hands would write. Perhaps someone on this board. I hardly think writing a letter about scooters on the sidewalk would be a cathartic exercise for a typical Korean. Who knows.... |
It's a conspiracy I tell you! A conspiracy! Only a Westerner could have such an independent mind! No, no Korean could EVER think so flexibly! Its a cospiracy! An evil Western imperialist rationalist conspiracy! Aaaiiieeeee!!!! |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| To me, it reads like a letter a bratty westerner with too much time on his hands would write. |
Perhaps, but:
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| Aside from pockets of wealth throughout the city and country, as a whole we are still living in the mid-twentieth century. In comparison to other first world countries - which we like to believe ourselves on par with - we are years, if not decades behind. We have the financial means to keep pace with the planet's heavy rollers, but that is where the proverbial buck stops. |
The writer does not seem to know the meaning of the phrase "the buck stops here". Because that refers to taking responsibility for a decision, and is usually meant as a compliment to whomever "stops the buck". However, the writer seems to think that it means "halting a process of improvement before it is complete".
Of course, it's not unheard of for native English speakers to use phrases incorrectly. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| I rarely buy the Herald but got it today as no IHT was at that subway stand. It was interesting. There was a Korean guy in the past who weekly criticized Korea/Koreans in a similar vein. Apparently he was not well-liked by many narrow-minded locals. He probably stopped writing to save his life.... |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| There was a Korean guy in the past who weekly criticized Korea/Koreans in a similar vein. |
You might be thinking of the guy who wrote the Seoul Searcher column. He was a right-wing GNP type, who had the unfortunate habit(at least from the point of view of trying to influence public opinion) of framing his political arguments as cultural criticisms of Korea. Instead of just saying something like "these radical students have no grasp on reality", he'd write "Koreans have no grasp on reality; take for example these radical students..."
There's another Herald columnist currently doing roughly the same thing. He's a Literature professor at SNU, and has a more pompous "harken now the wisdom of your elders" style of writing. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, but scooters on the sidewalks and the mogi man are not the central problems of living in Korea. They may bother the crap out of the princess and the pea types, but there are one or two more fundamental issues that should be dealt with before we get down to that level. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| To me, it reads like a letter a bratty westerner with too much time on his hands would write. |
The writer does not seem to know the meaning of the phrase "the buck stops here". Because that refers to taking responsibility for a decision, and is usually meant as a compliment to whomever "stops the buck". However, the writer seems to think that it means "halting a process of improvement before it is complete".
Of course, it's not unheard of for native English speakers to use phrases incorrectly. |
Nor is it inconceiveable that some bratty westerner with too much time on his hands would anticipate the possible skeptics and thus salt the article with a few subtle giveaways to convince everyone of his national credentials.
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There was a Korean guy in the past who weekly criticized Korea/Koreans in a similar vein. |
You might be thinking of the guy who wrote the Seoul Searcher column. He was a right-wing GNP type, who had the unfortunate habit(at least from the point of view of trying to influence public opinion) of framing his political arguments as cultural criticisms of Korea. Instead of just saying something like "these radical students have no grasp on reality", he'd write "Koreans have no grasp on reality; take for example these radical students..."
There's another Herald columnist currently doing roughly the same thing. He's a Literature professor at SNU, and has a more pompous "harken now the wisdom of your elders" style of writing. |
While these two columnists certainly have their critics (calling them sell-outs, traitors, fuddyduddies or just pompous) I know that they are/were a very rare and reassuring (if unrepresentative) voice of honesty and sanity for foreign readers of every age, time in country, nationality and political stripe. |
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Gorgias
Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't like living in a hospital. What is beautiful about Korea is the fact that it's so ugly. Sure the mountains are nice on a misty summer morning, but pig's heads, and red-light districts, and street stalls, and bent over grandmothers, and the dog market, and scooters.... Damn, those are the things that make this country even half interesting. Alas, soon the whole world is gonna be glass sky-scrapers and highways-- won't that be great! |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
It's ridiculous though. I can rant all I like to my fellow Irishmen about the negatives of Ireland and they will either nod their heads in agreement or disagree. Yet the discourse is possible. |
Same in Canada, although complaints are usually replied with signs of agreement. You'd be pretty cynical too if you had to shovel that white shit for 6 months out of a year. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Sorry, but scooters on the sidewalks and the mogi man are not the central problems of living in Korea. They may bother the crap out of the princess and the pea types, but there are one or two more fundamental issues that should be dealt with before we get down to that level. |
I think the writer's point was that these are symptoms of a third-world mentality that still rules in Korea, and that for the casual visitor they are the most visible. |
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