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Another Contract Offer, Can I get feedback Please?
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CustomX



Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:55 am    Post subject: Another Contract Offer, Can I get feedback Please? Reply with quote

Heres another one I got last night. Heres the teaching hours.
MW 10:10-1:10, 3-7:30
T,TH 10:10-1:10, 5-7:30
F 3-7:30

Opinions are appreciated!

Contract/Agreement

Description: This document describes a contractual agreement between the Institute and the Instructor.

Employer's Name: Park, Joo Oun
Employer's Address: 2nd Floor Dong-A 3-Cha APT Sang-ga, YeomChang-dong, Kangseo-gu, Seoul, South Korea

Instructor's Name:
Instructor's Date of Birth:
Instructor's Citizenship:

1. PURPOSE OF THIS CONTRACT:
The instructor will teach students at the educational institute or school at the times designated by Child-U and shall develop educational programs for the students. During the term of this agreement, the instructor must follow and strictly comply with the School's policies and guidelines.

2. DURATION OF THIS CONTRACT:
The school and the instructor agree that the instructor shall teach at the school for one year, starting from (December 1st, 2004 ~ November 30th, 2005). The instructor must inform the School of whether him or he wishes to exercise the option of renewal of contract or not two months prior to the end of one year's service and the contract may be renewed at that time by mutual agreement.

3. TEACHING DUTIES:
1) The instructor will take personal responsibility for knowledge and understanding of all material in the Child-U. The instructor shall faithfully teach and train students at the Child-U located in Yeomchang-dong, Kangseo-gu, Seoul, South Korea.
2) The instructor will work according to the School's schedule and should follow schedule changes which may occur.
3) The instructor will teach Monday through Friday, a total of thirty two hours.
4) The instructor will faithfully attend all the classes required. One sick day absence is allowed during semester. If there is more than one absence, hourly pay will be deducted from your salary. (3 late = 1 absence)
5) The instructor will be responsible for nice behavior in the classroom. (Any negative words, curses or unnecessary actions toward students are prohibited).

4. TEACHER'S SALARY:
1) Total yearly income is
a) ( 21,600,000 ) Won, plus one month's severance ( 1,800,000 ), pay bonus at end of contract (for teaching an average 6-7 hours a day, 30 hours per week, Total monthly salary is ( 1,800,000 ) won - guaranteed.

OR

b) ( 22,800,000 ) Won, plus one month's severance ( 1,900,000 ), pay bonus at end of contract (for teaching an average 6-7 hours a day, 32 hours per week, Total monthly salary is ( 1,900,000 ) won - guaranteed.

2) The severance pay is ( ) won equivalent to the monthly salary.
It will be paid only upon the completion of the one-year contract. (The instructor will be specially checked his performance compare with former period in last two months and it will be an evidence for the whether he complete the contract or not.)
3) If an instructor teaches, by mutual agreement of the instructor and employer, additional teaching hours, bonus money will be paid for those hours.
4) Pay day: Salary will be given monthly on the ( 10 th ) of each month on which instructors are paid.
5) Overtime rate for the each hour worked over and above is ( ��15,000 ) per hour.

5. LIVING ACCOMMODATION:
1) The living accommodation is provide for and arranged by the language school that the teacher is placed in.

6. TRANSPORTATION:
The employer will pay One- way economy-class airfare back to the teacher's original location at the end of 1year contract.

7. Working time
The working time will be from 10:00am-7:30pm (from Monday to Friday). It will be less than other days according to the total hour per week (30-32 hours). As mentioned above,
The instructor should follow schedule changes in the School.

8. VACATION TIME:
1) Five working day paid vacation: The five working days may be taken consecutively with Saturday and Sunday to make up the seven day vacation. This includes summer
5days and winter 5days (Korean New Year Days are included in 5days), total is 10days.
2) Vacation's other than statutory holidays must be taken at a mutually agreed upon time that is convenient for both the employee and employer. Employee must give at least one month notice to employer before taking a vacation.

9. KOREAN TAXES:
The employee shall pay approximately 6.3% of the monthly salary per month as withholding tax according to Korean tax law.

10. PRINCIPLE OF GOOD FAITH:
The School and the instructor shall execute the terms and conditions of this agreement upon the principle of good faith.

11. DUTY OF CONFIDENTIALITY:
1) The instructor shall not disclose any of the contents of this agreement, including salary, to a third party (including other employees of the school).
2) The instructor shall not disclose any information relating to the contents of lecturers and business operation of the School without prior permission of the School. Violation of this portion of the contract will cause the Instructor to be responsible to compensate the School for all possible losses suffered by the School.

12. INSTRUCTOR'S DUTIES:
The following forms of behavior will not be permitted.
1) Conducting class while under the influence of alcohol, while smoking, or under the influence of illegal drugs.
2) Making sexual advances towards, or entering into relationships with students or employees or the School.
3) Not following scheduled class timetables and dismissing, canceling, or starting classes late without the prior approval of the institute director.

13. DRESS CODE:
The instructor should present themselves as neat and professional to the students. Casual attire, provided it is clean and neat, is acceptable.
If the instructor fails to conduct him/herself in a professional manner, resulting in damaging the image of the institute, the institute has the right to terminate this contract; However the institute will provide at least a two week notice to the instructor.

14. UNDERSTANDING:
Both parties have read the above conditions and agree to the terms in good faith and will attempt to resolve any dispute in a reasonable manner. All decisions that cannot be resolved by the two parties above will be solved in accordance to Korean Civil law.

I duly agree on the contract stated above.

Date:


Employer Employee
Name: Name:


Signature: Signature:



Overall, seems like a bad contract. A lot of things are VERY vague and aren't explained very well. "Demonstrate nice behavior in class" - what do you consider to be 'nice' behavior? Also, "the teacher should follow schedule changes in the school" - that means that i wont have a set schedule. it would seem like they could make me work whatever hours they wanted. Also, theres no mention of paying for my airfare to get to Korea, only a return ticket back home. Is 6.3% tax a bit high? I thought it was usually under 5%, but maybe Im wrong. I'm not exactly jumping at this contract.
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justagirl



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Cheonan/Portland

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not good. Split shifts are fine for a couple months, then they start to kill you.

1.8 million? No way. Not enough. Not even close to being enough for the hours wanted per month and the split shift.

Tax rate is too high. It's closer to 3.5 or 4%

Follow your gut. No reason to look for more people to tell you this is bad! Very Happy

How about something like this?

Monday-Thursday 3 day weekends!
3-8/9 pm
1.8 million for <100 hours/month
round trip airfare
visa run if needed
1 month bonus at end
medical insurance
pension
2 other foreign teachers
completely English-fluent teaching staff
good boss
great kids
in Cheonan (38 min on the KTX to Seoul)

I can't believe my boss is still trying to find people to fill our positions when we leave. Rolling Eyes I would think someone would have grabbed this instantly...maybe he didn't advertise enough.

Anyway--good luck. I know a lot of teachers have a hard time finding a good job...seen lots come and go at schools in Cheonan.

justagirl
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CustomX



Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks. i actually emailed the recruiter and said i wasnt interested, just a few minutes before i read your reply. i listened to my gut, the split shifts were not appealing and the overall, the contract sucks. theres no mention of airfare to korea, or medical insurance, utilties, furnishings of the apartment. plus the hours are subject to change based on school needs. BLEH!
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Grotto



Joined: 21 Mar 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:57 pm    Post subject: contracts Reply with quote

Let me first say that you will never find a 'good' contract in Korea. Most are poorly worded and entirely in favor of the institute. The best you can hope for is that you can rewrite some of the points of the contract.

#1. Split shifts suck!
#2.
Quote:
5) The instructor will be responsible for nice behavior in the classroom. (Any negative words, curses or unnecessary actions toward students are prohibited).
Way too vague, saying you didnt do your homework you did a bad job could get you fired.

#3. Never sign a contract stating 30 hours a week unless they define what that hour is. Good hogwans will state that an hour is 50 teaching minutes or less...a bad hogwan will hold you for every second of that hour. 30x60=1800 minutes 1800/50=36 classes a week. A tough load let me tell you!

#4.
Quote:
It will be paid only upon the completion of the one-year contract. (The instructor will be specially checked his performance compare with former period in last two months and it will be an evidence for the whether he complete the contract or not.
No! this is totally illegal. If you are there for an entire year and they havent fired you, you get the bonus. They cant say'well for the last month or so you havent been as excited so we arent going to pay you'

#5. Overtime rate is too low...should be at least 20,000

#6. Living accomodations is vague. Single furnished housing should be specified.

#7. No mention of round trip airfare...just return.

#8. working time of 10-730 is long and then they say they can change it at will...no way

#9 vacation time is only 5 days? 10 days absolutely minimum.

#10 taxes are 4.5%

#11.
Quote:
The instructor shall not disclose any information relating to the contents of lecturers and business operation of the School without prior permission of the School. Violation of this portion of the contract will cause the Instructor to be responsible to compensate the School for all possible losses suffered by the School.
BAD NEWS all around here! Totally illegal as well!
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CustomX



Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Grotto. I actually mentioned at least 5 of those reasons to the recruiter as to why I wasnt interested in the job. Anyone should be able to read this contract and not get a good feeling from it. Goes to show you that the recruiter is just after the fee they'll collect.
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Grotto



Joined: 21 Mar 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

totally! Recruiters are after the quick buck. I dont know for certain but I would bet that trouble schools pay them a bonus for finding teachers for them.

As I said though you will probably never be handed a contract that is set up fairly. Too many schools want it totally in thier favor and thats the one they send you.

My advice is change the things in the contract you dont like. Send it back to them and just say this is the contract I will be willing to sign! Then they can make a decision. But expecting Koreans to do anything on thier own is like expecting a monkey to solve quadratic equasions. It is possible just highly unlikely!
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: contracts Reply with quote

Grotto wrote:
BAD NEWS all around here! Totally illegal as well!


Could you please cite what law this is in violation of?
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hellofaniceguy



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split shifts? Not for me. If you are happy with it...that's all that matters. But...you'll burn out from splits quickly...you will find out that you will have less time for yourself.
The salary?
You need to find out how many classes first! Don't agree to 32 hours!
ONLY agree to teach "X" amount of classes a day/week or month. 5 50 minute classes a day is more than fair at a hakwon. One option the school is "offering" you is 6/7 hours a day! Don't agree unless you know EXACTLY how many classes. 6/7 hours could be 8 classes a day depending on the length of the classes. Same with 32 hours a week.
Based on just this alone...I would not work at this school.
Housing?
Make sure it's single housing...NOT shared and not some hell hole that is common for teachers to be housed in.
Overtime?
15,000 Won? Never! Too low! Especially in seoul! Around 25,000 Won per class is fair. The school charges students what....150,000 per month! And it want's you to accept 15,000 Won per class! You went to college...correct? Why are you working? For free? Of course not.

Airfare? I see they pay at the end of the contract for your flight home...what about coming to korea to start work? No mention.
Vacation? 5 days!!!!
Gesh...I don't even want to read the rest of this BS contract and comment on it! 5 days vacation! Tell the owner to stick it up his rear-end. He's insulting you... so have no qualms about insulting him.
Many vague areas subject to the schools interpretation. Don��t sign. Find another school. Unless you are desperate.
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Grotto



Joined: 21 Mar 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:16 pm    Post subject: sigh Reply with quote

sigh.... if you insist on being educated again.

The rate for taxes at that level of salary is between 3-5% not this baloney:
Quote:
9. KOREAN TAXES:
The employee shall pay approximately 6.3% of the monthly salary per month as withholding tax according to Korean tax law.


A breach of Korean tax laws which is illegal Exclamation


Completion of a contract has to do with start and end dates not the whim of the owner/director:
Quote:
2) The severance pay is ( ) won equivalent to the monthly salary.
It will be paid only upon the completion of the one-year contract. (The instructor will be specially checked his performance compare with former period in last two months and it will be an evidence for the whether he complete the contract or not.)


see labour law:Article 30 (Restriction on Dismissal, etc.)

(1) An employer shall, without justifiable cause, not dismiss, lay off, suspend, transfer a worker, or reduce wages, or take other punitive measures against a worker.

and

Article 34 (Retirement Allowance System)

(1) An employer shall establish a retirement allowance system by which the average wages for not less than thirty days shall be paid for each one year of continuous employment as a retirement allowance to a retired worker: Provided that this shall not apply in cases where the worker has been employed for less than one year.

A breach of labor laws which is illegal Exclamation

I do hope this has cleared up any problems you were having and educated in the way that you need.
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: sigh Reply with quote

Grotto wrote:
sigh.... if you insist on being educated again.


Again? The last few times you've cited "the law", "the law" was something you had hoped existed that was either a work of fiction entirely or quoted out of context. That's why I asked you to explain how "The instructor shall not disclose any information relating to the contents of lecturers and business operation of the School without prior permission of the School. Violation of this portion of the contract will cause the Instructor to be responsible to compensate the School for all possible losses suffered by the School" is illegal. I wasn't asking about tax rates nor severance pay.

If you could please answer the question I asked, I would appreciate.
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Grotto



Joined: 21 Mar 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:09 pm    Post subject: ahhh Reply with quote

I now understand! It was your inability to phrase a proper question that led to the misunderstanding. I was refering to the whole contract. As: if one part of it violates a law the whole contract becomes null and void.

As to the section:
Quote:
The instructor shall not disclose any information relating to the contents of lecturers and business operation of the School without prior permission of the School. Violation of this portion of the contract will cause the Instructor to be responsible to compensate the School for all possible losses suffered by the School


Well I am truly sorry that you cannot see all the glaring flaws that make this section illegal. First of all they deny the employee the right for arbitration. As: if you take this contract to the labor board you violate this section. If you discuss it with an attorney you violate this contract. And the 'smoking gun', if you will:Violation of this portion of the contract will cause the Instructor to be responsible to compensate the School for all possible losses suffered by the School

all possible losses....now maybe you dont think this is illegal but you cannot hold someone responsible for all possible losses of a school. Oh you had an earthquake and the school fell down and you told someone..hey gord pay up.... They are trying to deny the employee of the rights gauranteed to them by the labor board...arbitration, filing a complaint, even discussing it over beers with a friend. Unless you can pull a law out of your ass stating that they can control your speech inside and outside of work and hold you responsible for any and all 'possible damages' STFU Exclamation
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: ahhh Reply with quote

Grotto wrote:
I now understand! It was your inability to phrase a proper question that led to the misunderstanding. I was refering to the whole contract. As: if one part of it violates a law the whole contract becomes null and void.


You say that, yet the part I quoted in its entirety was immediately following a part of the contract you quoted. I only read what you wrote, not what you intended to say.

Quote:
Well I am truly sorry that you cannot see all the glaring flaws that make this section illegal. First of all they deny the employee the right for arbitration. As: if you take this contract to the labor board you violate this section. If you discuss it with an attorney you violate this contract. And the 'smoking gun', if you will:Violation of this portion of the contract will cause the Instructor to be responsible to compensate the School for all possible losses suffered by the School


Agreeing not to discuss how a business operates is a common contract term. When I worked at IBM, I had the same deal.

Again I ask, exactly what law does this violate? It was a simple question and so far you've done lovely tap dances around answering it. Just tell us the exact law it violates. I am curious why you are refusing to do that when you quoted other laws already so you know where to find them.


Quote:
all possible losses....now maybe you dont think this is illegal but you cannot hold someone responsible for all possible losses of a school. Oh you had an earthquake and the school fell down and you told someone..hey gord pay up....


That's quite a curious strawman you've built. You will note that the agreement is to cover losses that are a result of the loose lips sinking ships, not loses that occured before the loose lips began moving.

Quote:
They are trying to deny the employee of the rights gauranteed to them by the labor board...arbitration, filing a complaint, even discussing it over beers with a friend. Unless you can pull a law out of your ass stating that they can control your speech inside and outside of work and hold you responsible for any and all 'possible damages' STFU Exclamation


It's not a law, but a contractual agreement. If a person agrees to work there and agrees to the clause we are talking about, that's fine. Had the school said "the law demands you not to relay information about the inner workings of the school" then we could agree it was a fraud.

And they can control your speech inside and outside of work if you agree to it. Just as if you agree not to date the students, not to put paper in the plastics bin, and to swear pants and not jeans. Let's pretend that you and I came to an agreement where I pay you $100 a day not to mention the word Internet or use it. And if anyone asked about it, you just pretend that it doesn't exist and never heard of it. Then down at the pub one day I overhear you saying how want to play StarCraft online. Claims of "free speech" would not be upheld as you agreed to curtail your speech in exchange for something and I would be awarded damages due to the contract violation.

When I worked at IBM, if I leaked the Datapac network access codes to the friends while drinking it up at the pub and they used that to give themslves eleventy bazillion dollars, I would be liable for it because I agreed to it.

You always post such lovely strawman arguments. Shame you don't put nearly half as much effort into actually just posting the truth.
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Grotto



Joined: 21 Mar 2004

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:52 am    Post subject: as the pot calls the kettle black! Reply with quote

Oh yeah, this sounds familiar!

Okay dummy here we go again. There is a big....no HUGE difference between a 'non disclosure agreement' and this demand you dont talk with anyone about the business of the school.

Again you pull in crap that has nothing to do with the topic. Agreeing not to date students has absolutely nothing to do with speech! It is an action, even a moron like you should be able to see this! Paper in plastic bins...an action...not speech.


Okay freakboy here we go:

[quote] Let's pretend that you and I came to an agreement where I pay you $100 a day not to mention the word Internet or use it. And if anyone asked about it, you just pretend that it doesn't exist and never heard of it. Then down at the pub one day I overhear you saying how want to play StarCraft online. Claims of "free speech" would not be upheld as you agreed to curtail your speech in exchange for something and I would be awarded damages due to the contract violation. [quote]

There is no violation of the above asinine agreement. By saying I want to play Starcraft online does not violate the agreement in any way shape or form. The word 'internet' was never mentioned! Now I just love how your warped mind jumps to such a effed up conclusion. Now lets just say you managed to bribe a jury to buy your bullcrap you would still have to prove damages...and what damages were caused by someone saying the word 'internet?' Wake up and smell the reality!

I just love how you post such bullcrap posts all the time without backing up anything you say! Your imaginitive if naive posts have long lost their interest to all.

Oh yes sphincter boy remember straw bends but it does not break
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chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Unless you like watching the preservation of male pride poorly disguised by faux meaningful debate. There is never a winner in these things. Always two losers that need to get in a game of who can avoid the loss of face and appear weak. Despite not realizing that mutual weakness was declared when the flames started. Let's all watch how pathetic this becomes.
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: as the pot calls the kettle black! Reply with quote

Grotto wrote:
Oh yeah, this sounds familiar!

Okay dummy here we go again. There is a big....no HUGE difference between a 'non disclosure agreement' and this demand you dont talk with anyone about the business of the school.


And the difference is?

Quote:
Again you pull in crap that has nothing to do with the topic. Agreeing not to date students has absolutely nothing to do with speech! It is an action, even a moron like you should be able to see this! Paper in plastic bins...an action...not speech.


Pardon me if I don't place my value in your legal advice which has a poor track record in proving to be valid.

Quote:
There is no violation of the above asinine agreement. By saying I want to play Starcraft online does not violate the agreement in any way shape or form. The word 'internet' was never mentioned! Now I just love how your warped mind jumps to such a effed up conclusion. Now lets just say you managed to bribe a jury to buy your bullcrap you would still have to prove damages...and what damages were caused by someone saying the word 'internet?' Wake up and smell the reality!


You missed the second part where I said you would have to pretend that the Internet doesn't exist and that you've never heard of it. Talking about playing it online means you are discussing using the Internet.

As for damages, that's the legal term for court awards. Every time I've gone to court, I've always won for actual damages (that being the cost of the product lost/destroyed or for the recovery of money paid in which the services or item that was paid for was not upkept or of the quality expected) and often been awarded punitive damages (a punishment fine against the person who lost).

If you really wish to discuss legal issues, much like the labour laws we discussed last time, you should bring yourself up to speed first at what everything means before you start tossing out assumptions and insults.

But to answer your question about what I would win, I would be entitled to my money back (how far back would depend on the terms of the payment, specificially if it was to be for a set time period or ongoing until further notice) plus a punitive award based on if you accidentally slipped or intended to defraud. Further fines based on any losses I incurred that would be reasonable for you to know would occur.

Quote:
I just love how you post such bullcrap posts all the time without backing up anything you say! Your imaginitive if naive posts have long lost their interest to all.

Oh yes sphincter boy remember straw bends but it does not break


Yet another post from you and you are yet to answer the single question I've now raised multiple times: What is the law that says it's illegal for an employee to agree not to discuss the business activities of the employer?
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