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cellphone
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:37 am Post subject: Hagwon vacation, how does it go for you? |
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Chatted with a fellow teacher at my job and he casually said that usually a vacation stretches from a Mon to a Fri, that meaning the teacher would really get 9 days off with the two weekends (no weekend work). He didn't say it's official but just that's what he did before or along those lines. I mentioned to my boss I would need to make a trip back to the USA to take care of business and settle things and if there would maybe be a time roughly in February (or so) that would be open for it I'd like to know. Rather strangely he pointed out a time frame but said that I would need to be back on the Friday of the said week, hence I wouldn't get that full 9 days the co worker mentioned before. In otherwords the boss mentioned a Mon to Thursday vacation, not Mon to Fri. Being that it's a Korea - USA trip I'd need the full time span for jet lag as well as taking care of my belongings and business back in the US.
What does anyone else think on vacations? What have you done for your trips, how many days off could you take, how did it go? Are hagwons usually very tight about them, or? I understand business is important, but it's a long dist trip too. Information appreciated. |
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Most hagwons will give you no extra days than what is specified by law(and in some cases less) as would businesses in any other country in the world.
They only have to give you the Tuesday, wednesday and Thursday of Seollal next year by law, and that is what is happening to me(but I'm going to use a holiday for the Monday).
They are doing nothing wrong by not granting you these extra days. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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what does your contract say?
Do you get holidays off? Are they set? Or do you get to choose when you take them.
As for your boss not giving you the Friday off, I would just come back on Saturday, tell him your flight was delayed he wouldnt know any better.
Expecting a hogwan owner to behave rationally is like expecting a politician not to lie! |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Most contracts do specify that your holiday time is totally at the discretion of your manager. Frankly that you can take time off count yourself lucky. My contract says 10 days but my boss has no one to cover my shifts. We're a small school. She understands I need to go home and see my family for a week but wants me to take 5 of my days over the new years holiday which means 5 of my days would be 3 stat days. They'd only have to cover 2 days of shifts.
I might normally be pissed by that save for the fact a) I only work 3 hours a day monday - friday b) the korean teachers have to work 3 times those number of hours c) my boss and coworkers are very kind d) some of the senior managers would prefer to do without an expensive foreign teacher and she always has to defend my position e) it's not her being a biatch. She's just not given a lot to work with by senior management (we're a smaller elementary English institute within a larger high school prep school and they don't always understand our model as we don't seem to be preparing the kids to write any exams) f) that my pay is actually paid on time and my apartment is nice it's one of those "pick your battles" calls you have to make in Korea.
So all in all, before you go the screaming in your boss' face route, when you encounter any bump like this in Korea, do a mental calc. All thing considered could you be doing worse some place else? It takes one small incident you might not think much of but your director would consider a great loss of face to get the gears in motion for bouncing you. And then you're scrambling to find a new job... |
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turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
Most contracts do specify that your holiday time is totally at the discretion of your manager. Frankly that you can take time off count yourself lucky. My contract says 10 days but my boss has no one to cover my shifts. We're a small school. She understands I need to go home and see my family for a week but wants me to take 5 of my days over the new years holiday which means 5 of my days would be 3 stat days. They'd only have to cover 2 days of shifts.
I might normally be pissed by that save for the fact a) I only work 3 hours a day monday - friday b) the korean teachers have to work 3 times those number of hours c) my boss and coworkers are very kind d) some of the senior managers would prefer to do without an expensive foreign teacher and she always has to defend my position e) it's not her being a biatch. She's just not given a lot to work with by senior management (we're a smaller elementary English institute within a larger high school prep school and they don't always understand our model as we don't seem to be preparing the kids to write any exams) f) that my pay is actually paid on time and my apartment is nice it's one of those "pick your battles" calls you have to make in Korea.
So all in all, before you go the screaming in your boss' face route, when you encounter any bump like this in Korea, do a mental calc. All thing considered could you be doing worse some place else? It takes one small incident you might not think much of but your director would consider a great loss of face to get the gears in motion for bouncing you. And then you're scrambling to find a new job... |
I too am at a small school, (the only native teacher.)and I too make a lot of allowances. Like you I feel like despite the allowances, I have a pretty good gig.
Having said that I think you are being a little naive when you believe they would get rid of the native teacher. There are Hagwons without native teachers but they are a different ballgame. Your school loses the native speaker and I can assure you a certain percentage of parents will pull their children out the next day. (figuratively speaking) Mothers are obsessed with their children being exposed to a native environment.
As for taking holidays over the stats, does that mean they will pay you for the holidays you cannot take? Or pay you for the stats? Sure you can't have holiday on demand, but if you are flexibile on your dates then they can work around them.
Sounds like you are working for the one "smart" Korean in Korea. (They are working you instead of yelling at you...much more effective with Westerners:) ) (or maybe she is getting worked...who knows) |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Most contracts do specify that your holiday time is totally at the discretion of your manager. |
Say what???? I have never seen a contract that specifies the holiday time is totally at the discretion of the manager!
I have seen contracts where the holidays are worked into the school year.
I have seen contracts where you get a week off in winter and a week off in summer.
I have seen contracts that state you get ten days of holidays but dont mention the specific days off.
I do agree that the best method is not to 'get up in your bosses face' and act like a crap flinging monkey.
But your holiday time is exactly that....your holiday time! They dont want you taking it...too bad! They should have thought of that beforehand! If you give adequate notice(2 months or more) there is no excuse on the planet that they can give that justifies them withholding your vacation days.
Oh I know gord will pop up with the section of the labour law that says if it causes a major disruption of work they can deny it, but when you give adequate notice and they dont get off their monkey asses and arrange for a substitute that is to effing bad! |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| If your contract says 5 days then you should get 5 days. Period. 5 days that are not red days. That means monday to fraiday, sandwiched by two weekends. That is what your contract says. Now, thats theaory. In practice getting some directors to agree is gonna be impossible. A lot depends on your hagwon's size. In a small hagwon they will have no one to sub for you and wont be as understanding. A bigger hagwon may give you the time off. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Grotto wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Most contracts do specify that your holiday time is totally at the discretion of your manager. |
Say what???? I have never seen a contract that specifies the holiday time is totally at the discretion of the manager! |
Looking at some random contacts from schools I didn't go with:
"Vacations are determined by the Wonderland calendar. As a result of this system, the Employee will not be able to request or schedule his/her own vacations."
"School will close during summer holidays, usually five to seven days of vacation in August as well as on all national holidays. Therefore, our holidays will be basically limited to these holidays."
"All national holidays and school designated school vacation days will be paid as a part of the monthly salary. "
None of these contracts allows you to set your own vacation days. You go on holiday when the school closes. Even most companies I've worked for in North America don't give the employee the absolute right to take time off when he pleases. There is always managerial approval. No one wants half your development team taking their two weeks a month before product is to ship.
More interesting many banks have vacation minimums. At a bank one is prevented from taking a Friday off here, a Monday off there. You take 5 days off minimum or nothing. Why? They find this helps to catch employees cooking the books. If you're away for a day it's easy to cover. If you're away for a week, there's a greater chance the paper game will reveal itself in errors. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:02 am Post subject: |
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Just for fun, consider statutory vacations in Canada. It varies some from province to province, but for the most part employees are entitled to zero days vacation during their first year of employment. 2 weeks (10 days) kicks in in the 2nd year, & if you stick around for 5 years it goes up to 3 weeks. Alberta employers can even subtract sick days.
I know, its apples & oranges, but hey its all fruit. Neither have I ever had a job in the west where I could simply dictate which days I wanted -- that was the boss's prerogative or the leftovers after more senior workers had chosen.
By all means do your civil best to get what your contract says youve got coming, but I dont think its reasonable to demand every detail to suit your convenience. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Ok, Here is a very strange situation and it has to do with vacations.
I decided I wanted to go home for Christmas. I asked my school for Dec 23rd and 24th off originally and they said yes. At the time, no decision had been made in terms of vacation schedule. I then ended up asking an extra day (the 22nd) as well which they allowed.
Here's the strange part...today I was told by one of the Korean teachers that the school will be closed the first week of Jan. I was surprised quite a bit. Then she told me, "Don't tell anyone, Isabel (our director) to me not to tell you."
I haven't bought my ticket yet, but I have a confirmed reservation. I could stay a few extra days if I wanted to, certainly I probably wouldn't have a hard time changing my ticket.
However, I'm left with the feeling that my director is jerking me around. What I want to do is casually say, "Hey I am going to buy my ticket, did you ever confirm the schedule for Christmas vacation?" She knows I haven't bought my ticket, so I doubt it will seem really obvious.
The reply i could get is: 1) yes, and by the way we have the first week off in Jan; 2) yes, it was as we had expected through Jan 2nd coming back on Jan 3rd; 3) No, let me check.
I'm seriously thinking of calling her on the carpet on this one! |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| turtlepi1 wrote: |
[
Having said that I think you are being a little naive when you believe they would get rid of the native teacher. There are Hagwons without native teachers but they are a different ballgame. Your school loses the native speaker and I can assure you a certain percentage of parents will pull their children out the next day. (figuratively speaking) Mothers are obsessed with their children being exposed to a native environment.
) |
If that were true, then mothers would be pulling their children out of the hagwon when you take your holidays. But they don't. All the boss has to do is tell the mothers "oh the foreign teacher is on holidays." And then get a recruiter to find someone else. There are lots more teachers in Korea then before. The replacement that we had for one of our foreign teachers who was leaving, bailed. She just never showed up. Two days later we had a replacement for the replacement.
So don't think that you are irreplacable, though you may be the only foreign teacher there, you are not the only foreign teacher in Korea. Like I said, all it takes is a little white lie by the boss, and a few days later they've got a native speaker. Sure it's a hassle, but it can and is done. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| What are these "vacations" that you speak of? |
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Yangkho
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Honam
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:40 am Post subject: |
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Last year I was at a big hagwon, and it was only after I threatened to quit that I got one lousy three day weekend. Their excuse? "We don't have anyone to cover for you." What they did was pay everybody for the unused days.
This year I'm at an extremely small place, and I get two five-day breaks. Granted, I've had to fight for them, but I get them just the same.
Nobody quit when I took my five days this past August. Nobody quit. They were happy to see me when I got back. |
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J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Grotto wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Most contracts do specify that your holiday time is totally at the discretion of your manager. |
Say what???? I have never seen a contract that specifies the holiday time is totally at the discretion of the manager! |
Looking at some random contacts from schools I didn't go with:
"Vacations are determined by the Wonderland calendar. As a result of this system, the Employee will not be able to request or schedule his/her own vacations."
"School will close during summer holidays, usually five to seven days of vacation in August as well as on all national holidays. Therefore, our holidays will be basically limited to these holidays."
"All national holidays and school designated school vacation days will be paid as a part of the monthly salary. "
None of these contracts allows you to set your own vacation days. |
And it's not as bad as it sounds, either. If the school has a set calendar with set vacation dates, at least you're pretty much guaranteed a vacation, even though you might not be able to choose it. A lot of teachers have vacation time in their contract, but the dates aren't specified. What often happens in that situation is you'll ask your boss for a certain week, and he'll simply say "No, not then. Yeah, I know you have vacation time coming to you, but not now." And he can just keep saying "not now" until the end of your contract, and then what? It sounds very limiting not being able to pick your vacation time, but it's good in a way because at least you know you'll get it. As long as they show you the calendar before you sign, of course. |
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