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Cherry Ripe
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
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 Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:07 pm Post subject: Always the Waygook Saram |
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I have to say that there is one thing that has always bugged me - it's being referred to as "Waygook Saram" - NOT by strangers or people I hardly know, but by Koreans I regard as friends. Translated straight into English, I guess it means "outsider" or "foreigner", therefore am I always going to be regarded as such no matter how long I live here and know the person??
Could someone enlighten me on whether I should be offended or not? Perhaps it's just an expresson they are so used to saying that they don't think about it? Should I take it as a sign of an insincere friendship? |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| No, they can't help themselves. Literally. |
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kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't take it as a sign of insincere friendship. Sometimes you are referred to that way so people know more quickly of whom they refer when speaking of you. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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1. Why would they need to know "more quickly"? More quickly than what?
2. What is quicker than referring to someone by name? If you have a non-Korean name, chances are that Koreans will know you are a "foreigner" anyway. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Like when I pick up my suits from the dry cleaners. You know those little name-tags they STAPLE (  ) onto your clothes? Well, wherever I've lived, however many times I've told and written them my name, I always get my clothes back with "�ܱ���" ('foreigner') scribbled on the name-tags.  Every other customer gets referred to by their name. But we will forever be referred to as "strange outsider in our midst". |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Its not racism. In Korean people dont refer to others by their name. They do it by title usually. ����, ���, ������, ������, etc. To call someone by their name is considered rude. Even among friends people will not use names unless they are the same age. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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1. Not saying it's racism.
2. "Foreigner" is not my title.
3. It actually has nothing to do with names, but if it did, please see Jongno Guru's post for an example of when Korean speakers actually do use names in a business context. |
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Universalis
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygook wrote: |
| Its not racism. In Korean people dont refer to others by their name. They do it by title usually. ����, ���, ������, ������, etc. To call someone by their name is considered rude. Even among friends people will not use names unless they are the same age. |
I suppose "this person" or "someone" is too much to ask for...
I was once waiting to use the zerox machine and a Korean teacher told his co-worker a "foreigner" was waiting to use it.
Another time, a student got a call during class... he told his friend he was talking to a "foreigner" so he had to go.
One time, a student told me Korean people will try to be nice to me because I'm a foreigner... I told her I wanted to be treated nicely because I'm a person.
Brian |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:28 am Post subject: |
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I think it's a certain kind of person who gets annoyed by this stuff- I find it pretty funny and in the past when I've been supposed to write my name on something I've written �ܱ��� for a bit of a joke.
At work people call each other "Manager" or "Team leader" all the time, using the title rather than the real name- they call me "James" though, should I get upset? |
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katydid
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Here kitty kitty kitty...
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| If it is a friend speaking about me, I would greatly prefer Miguk saram to weiguk saram, as it seems then they'd be making more of an effort to be more inclusive about their thinking of people who are not Korean. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Swiss James wrote: |
| I think it's a certain kind of person who gets annoyed by this stuff- I find it pretty funny and in the past when I've been supposed to write my name on something I've written �ܱ��� for a bit of a joke. |
Sure, but that's you making the joke, not having it made by someone else at your expense.
I mean, say the late Sammy Davis, Jr. liked to write down "One-eyed Black Jewish Unca Tom" at Fotomat when he dropped off film, that'd be one thing. It'd be another if the teenage clerk did it.
| Swiss James wrote: |
| At work people call each other "Manager" or "Team leader" all the time, using the title rather than the real name- they call me "James" though, should I get upset? |
Why not just call those individuals in the same manner? If they get upset, there's a guideline for you. |
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Swiss James wrote: |
I think it's a certain kind of person who gets annoyed by this stuff- I find it pretty funny and in the past when I've been supposed to write my name on something I've written �ܱ��� for a bit of a joke.
At work people call each other "Manager" or "Team leader" all the time, using the title rather than the real name- they call me "James" though, should I get upset? |
Why not just call those individuals in the same manner? If they get upset, there's a guideline for you. |
to be honest I find it weird calling them by their titles and usually use either their real name, nickname, or just plain old "Mr Kim". If I've offended anyone yet they've never told me. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Swiss James wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
| Swiss James wrote: |
I think it's a certain kind of person who gets annoyed by this stuff- I find it pretty funny and in the past when I've been supposed to write my name on something I've written �ܱ��� for a bit of a joke.
At work people call each other "Manager" or "Team leader" all the time, using the title rather than the real name- they call me "James" though, should I get upset? |
Why not just call those individuals in the same manner? If they get upset, there's a guideline for you. |
to be honest I find it weird calling them by their titles and usually use either their real name, nickname, or just plain old "Mr Kim". If I've offended anyone yet they've never told me. |
No offense, but I assume you're not conversing with them in Korean. I should have made the distinction in my reply to your post, because I think it's important.
Anyway, as long as you are comfortable in your relationship with your co-workers, that's the key thing. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:13 am Post subject: |
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I dislike it as well, hearing weyguk the whole time. I much prefer being referred to as "ajosshi", because its a neutral term, instead of seeing a person as immediately "A miguk, a weygook".
Then the guys don't like it because you don't learn their language. "At least Pakistanis try to learn our language, never westerners". So why don't you go harrass a pakistani to be your instant best friend, and force him to give you language practise while drinking soju? |
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