Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Koreabound2004]

I know that it has been discussed time and time again here, but today's incident bothered me a lot.

These two girls are always being yelled at by my coteacher, I don't know what he is saying, but it always upsets me when he does it.

So today, I hear yelling in the teacher's room adjacent to the room I am working in.

Then the same two girls are sent in, they are red-faced and crying.

I finally asked my coteacher, why are those two girls always in trouble?

He said, "They were caught smoking."

I thought fair enough I guess, smoking in school.

Then I asked, "Where were they smoking?"

He said in a PC room downtown.....

I don't agree with physical punishment in any case, but being punished at school for something you did in your free time, now that's just ridiculous. Also, the double standard, males can smoke, women can't...I am aware of the history behind it, but come on, we are not still in the dark ages.

[Swiss James]

depends how old they are and if they were in their school uniform I suppose.

In some korean films I've seen, if kids get in trouble and are taken down the po, the police call the kids' homeroom teacher to come to collect (and punish) them. Weird.

[Grotto]

teachers are often parents in absentia.

In Korea it is even more so. I have had parents thank me for some of my more innovative punishments to their children.

Example: I had one student who didnt respond to anything, rewards, threats, punishments etc. Holding arms up, laughed right through it, out in the hall, he caused so much chaos for other teachers it wasnt an option.
Taking him to the director nada.

Making him kneel on two pencils laid on the floor, tears in less than a minute, begging for forgiveness in under 5 minutes. Extreme? Oh yeah! Effective? You betcha! He became one of my best students after that.

[turtlepi1]

AAARRRRRGGGHHHH!!!

I don't know if you saw my thread about beating the crap out of three students but your post is timely for me...

I've been thinking a lot about corporal punishment.

In the West we have decided that corporal punishment is not acceptable.
We have told people outside of the house that they may not hit our children, yet we do not deny parents the right to discipline their children as they see fit.

On one level I can understnd this...but on another...removing CP was a battle. One side won and one side lost. Because of this a big vacuum was created. Many children no longer have respect for those in "power" positions. (we can argue about what the threat of violence is teaching children, but that isn't really my point.)

If people don't believe "it takes a village" to raise a child then parents need to be held FAR more accountable for the actions of their children.

(It might not sound like it but I don't believe in hitting kids either...)

As for being in Korea and if a girl is caught smoking IN UNIFORM anywhere, then it makes sense (In Korea) that the child is disciplined at the school.

I'm not afraid to talk about these issues with Koreans (including coworkers) but I try not to do it from a position of I am right or from the moral high ground. Talking about it makes me feel better. (And yes, many situations around CP in this country make me uncomfortable too...but a lot of situations around the lack of CP in North America make me just as uncomfortable.)

[FUBAR]

What is wrong with yelling at students who are smoking? It's illegal to smoke under the age of 19. Schools should be doing all they can to stop students from smoking. This is the time they are most susceptible to evils of smoking. I wish the teachers at my High School in Canada had done a better job dealing with smokers. They simply ignored the problem b/c the students were off of school property. Pure stupidity and laziness if you ask me.

[Koreabound2004]

Well they were not just yelled at, but hit.

I think it's their choice, they are educated about smoking..you can't beat the crap outta somebody and tell them not to smoke. It's their choice, granted they may not be old enough, but I say let em try it, and get it out of their systems.

The hitting of students is just teaching them to hit others, which is probably why so many of these kids hit each other in class. Children really do learn what they live.

I think it's fair to say that when we were told NOT to do something as kids, it's the FIRST thing we wanted to do or try.



Children Learn What They Live
By Dorothy Law Nolte, Ph.D.


If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.
If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.
If children live with fear, they learn to be apprehensive.
If children live with pity, they learn to feel sorry for themselves.
If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.
If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.
If children live with shame, they learn to feel guilty.
If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.
If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.
If children live with praise, they learn appreciation.
If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.
If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.
If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.
If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.
If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.
If children live with fairness, they learn justice.
If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.
If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.
If children live with friendliness, they learn the world is a nice place in which to live.

[turtlepi1]

[FUBAR]

I would like to ask that PhD what is her response towards the "degradation of morals" (as others have put it) in other years. It all goes back to when all the "hippies" preached their "love each other" garble around. Then it started disallowing parents to discipline their own children.

The fact is, corporal punishment is a good thing IF it is used to send a message and as discipline. It shouldn't be used in anger.

[Grotto]

Ahh the old bleeding heart liberals vs the whats best for the masses conservatives.

Children have the right to smoke No they dont If they did it wouldnt be illegal

One of the things they need to do in Canada and the US is start prosecuting and charging people who: A. Supply cigarettes to minors(whether it be their parents or whomever) B. fine minors who get caught with cigarettes.

This whole crapfest of they are educated and informed is exactly that....crap!

Smoking kills, it is not cool, it stinks, its expensive, and it is a drain upon society in some ways a bigger drain than illegal drugs. How many people need oxygen, respatory help in their senior years? How many of those were or are smokers?

Some kids got a smack and lecture about the evil of smoking....I hope it knocked some sense into them.

[Koreabound2004]

The parents are now here yelling at the kid along with my coteacher, and she is crying....Not pretty....I feel sorry for the student...

The parents keep saying waygookin..I don't know if I am involved or how, but I am watching in a way, while pretending to surf the net. I can only imagine what they are saying.

I don't like kids smoking either, but there has to be a better way to deal with it.

[turtlepi1]

Again, I am not going to argue the legitimacy of it one way or the other


but after talking to quite a number of kids about discipline they feel they are hit because the person cares about them and their future.

If that is the message they are getting then it isn't all bad.

And by the way there are teachers arrested in Korea for hitting students.
A couple teachers have been removed from their teaching posts by police for striking students with a closed fist...(at a middle school here in Anyang)

That is not corporal punishment that is assault. CP is not administered in anger but ..(hehe..out of love and concern)

[uberscheisse]

corporal, schmorporal. at my school i'm not allowed to use corporal punishment. i never have a problem disciplining students.

generally if you're able to take the piss out of some kid's schtick by making him look foolish in front of his friends, it's more effective than a good asskicking.

when i worked with mentally ill people the strategy was "disengage, redirect" and when you're working with kids who are raised on ramyun, refined sugar and PC games to the point where, when they get to you they're a mexican jumping bean, you might as well be dealing with a parnanoid schizophrenic.

just shock the kid out of his ADD stupor, get him back on task and then continue.

of course this doesn't work with kids who are smoking. use a deterrent, show her a picture of her dad hawking up a lung on the sidewalk.

[turtlepi1]

hmmm...experts far better than us have argued CP for over 40 years that's why I don't want to argue it but ... (I feel like that is my catch phrase today...)

[riverboy]

I really think there has to be some middle ground in this issue. The wests liberal ideology of not hitting children is not actually working, but in my middleschool, I have been bothered by the hitting.
I often think of the example where I lost my cool in one of my hagwans classes a month or so ago. These kids are complete idiots. Everyone of them(eight grade six boys) They are rude, dissrespectful and insist on doing everything possible to aggrevate the teacher.
I ended up accidentally poking one boy who was a complete idiot for the entire class. I was quite upset at this, but now they are much better behaved than before I poked him. I am sure there was a better way(as some may tell me), but it sure was effecticve and I tried many other ways up to that point.

[thorin]