| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
littlebluebg
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
|
 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject: Questions from a newbie |
 |
|
Ok so I'm new and I am pretty naive about all of this. At this point teaching in Korea is just an option I'm exploring so - please no snickering or pointing at me for my stupid questions. Here's a few I have:
1. What is a hakwan? Same as a hagwan? My understanding of it is that it is a private school rather than a public school - is this correct?
2. I really really prefer children to adults, so is a hagwan my best bet?
3. All these horror stories about immigration kind of scare me. What are the documents I need to have in hand upon entering Korea? I've been told that some schools will assist you in getting a visa, but some not until you arrive at the school. In that scenario how do you explain it to immigration?
4. I'd love to hear some of your experiences on when you first arrived in Korea, and also your first day teaching experiences (particularly if you were teaching children).
OK that's it for now! Thanks for the info!
-bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hogwan is a private academy ....calling them a school gives them too much credit. They vary widely in their quality and experience.
If you have an B ED you could probably sign on with a public or private school. Elementary, middle or high. They are usually heads and shoulders above hogwans in quality of material and working conditions.
You need your original degree or a notorized copy from a Korean consulate or embassy.
You must apply for your visa before entering the country or do a visa run once you arrive. When I arrived in Korea for the first time I did not have my visa and had to do a visa run. They asked me what I was doing here...English teacher...where....Suwon ECC...whats the address...I dont know...where will you live...I dont know....okay have a nice stay...thank you.
Went to school in the AM observed a couple of classes and was teaching in the afternoon. I was basically shown my classroom, given a stack of books and told the students would tell me where they were in the texts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Questions from a newbie |
|
|
1. What is a hakwan? Same as a hagwan? My understanding of it is that it is a private school rather than a public school - is this correct?
Keep in mind that most of us are spelling the word as it sounds, so there'll be a pile of different Romanized spellings- they're pretty much all the same. Hagwons are probably better compared to something like after school piano lessons than to a school. Parents pay to send their kids there, so they'll learn something beyond the school curriculum.
2. I really really prefer children to adults, so is a hagwan my best bet?
There are lots of public school gigs opening up, but they can be tough, especially for someone new to the country and new to teaching. Hagwons have smaller classes, better texts(*most of the time) and you'll work with other English speakers- all good things, especially for a newbie.
3. All these horror stories about immigration kind of scare me. What are the documents I need to have in hand upon entering Korea? I've been told that some schools will assist you in getting a visa, but some not until you arrive at the school. In that scenario how do you explain it to immigration?
It's better to get the visa before coming to Korea if you can. Most of the questions are answered here.
Hope this clears a few things up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Grotto wrote: |
hogwan is a private academy ....calling them a school gives them too much credit.
|
No more than calling GEPIK people "teachers"..
(Don't get me wrong...there are teachers in GEPIK and plenty who are not.)
I don't think of the hagwan experience as glamourous by any means but I would suggest our students learn far more in hagwan than they learn in public school.
Our grade 6 (elementary) students have almost completed the first year middle school text over the winter vacation period. (and by the way I'm not saying this is a good thing either.) These students will go to middle school and be bored and distruptive. Students who really need help and can't go to hagwan won't get it because in a large class the teacher teachers to the middle which is far above the actual level of a child that hasn't attended a hagwan.
Sorry we didn't get a chance to chat the card game, grotto. Had a good time though.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Questions from a newbie |
|
|
| littlebluebg wrote: |
| 3. All these horror stories about immigration kind of scare me. What are the documents I need to have in hand upon entering Korea? I've been told that some schools will assist you in getting a visa, but some not until you arrive at the school. In that scenario how do you explain it to immigration? |
Keep in mind that you cannot get a visa inside Korea. If you come without one, you can enter on a tourist visa, but when it's time to get your visa, you will need to leave the country again to pick it up at a Korean embassy or consulate in another country. Thus if you have a job lined up before you come here, you should get the visa in your home country before you arrive. You can come without a visa to check out the scene and find a school that you like, and there are advantages to this. However, as I said, if you already have a deal with a school before you get here, there is no excuse for them not helping you get a visa before you leave your home country. If you do that, you'll just have to leave again to get your visa, which is a hassle, and could be a big hassle getting them to reimburse your travel expenses. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| turtlepi1 wrote: |
Our grade 6 (elementary) students have almost completed the first year middle school text over the winter vacation period. (and by the way I'm not saying this is a good thing either.) These students will go to middle school and be bored and distruptive. Students who really need help and can't go to hagwan won't get it because in a large class the teacher teachers to the middle which is far above the actual level of a child that hasn't attended a hagwan..... |
Sorry to disrupt your thread but this drives me crazy. I think this is a total parastic relationship on the part of the hogwons. These guys shouldn't be teaching the national cirrculum. They can dove tail but this is sheer stupidty. Lets teach the kids the same stuff they get at school so that they can fall asleep at school because the kids spend 14 hours a day in school and hogwon 
In some cases it's just sheer laziness. Myself and a co worker in my district have had instances where worksheets that we've produced ourselves have been pre taught by hogwon teachers (remember we teach the same lesson for a week). Usually this crops about test season but I swear this year I'm going to ask the kid which hogwon they go to and raise hell. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
CM,
I'd get together with your school and accuse them of copyright violation. Sure, that's a joke when outside copyright (out-of-Korea produced materieals) are involved, but when it's between two Korean organizations, it's treated much more seriously. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| crazylemongirl wrote: |
| turtlepi1 wrote: |
Our grade 6 (elementary) students have almost completed the first year middle school text over the winter vacation period. (and by the way I'm not saying this is a good thing either.) These students will go to middle school and be bored and distruptive. Students who really need help and can't go to hagwan won't get it because in a large class the teacher teachers to the middle which is far above the actual level of a child that hasn't attended a hagwan..... |
Sorry to disrupt your thread but this drives me crazy. I think this is a total parastic relationship on the part of the hogwons. These guys shouldn't be teaching the national cirrculum. They can dove tail but this is sheer stupidty. Lets teach the kids the same stuff they get at school so that they can fall asleep at school because the kids spend 14 hours a day in school and hogwon
In some cases it's just sheer laziness. Myself and a co worker in my district have had instances where worksheets that we've produced ourselves have been pre taught by hogwon teachers (remember we teach the same lesson for a week). Usually this crops about test season but I swear this year I'm going to ask the kid which hogwon they go to and raise hell. |
Yup...they do regular class 6 times a week and then do camp which is the national book but in far more detail and enhanced exercises.
Having first (ok second) hand knowledge of the public school classroom I can't really blame the hagwon for filling a void. Let's face it..the argument is "chicken and the egg" Public schools suck...(that doesn't make GEPIK people bad teachers the system is broken and the stop gap solutions don't make it better)
You get rid of hagwons and in the short-term you have a generation of less intellegent people...overall for society it is good but the children involved are throw away chilren...
(and like I mentioned in a PM...I wasn't bagging on GEPIK teachers in my original post...heck my friends are GEPIK teachers as well as my fiance...
*talk about sleeping on the couch*) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trigger123
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Location: TALKING TO STRANGERS, IN A BETTER PLACE
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
only a little to add, (and btw, its reassuring to see a thread not hijacked to slag off GEPIK / EPIK / Hagwons for a change...)
you mentioned first day experiences? well i would recommend going to a larger hagwon that employs other western teachers. particularly if you are teaching overseas for the first time, which it appears you are. yes, for i variety of reasons can be 'better', but commonly teachers are the only westerner at the school and this can mean the positions can be isolated and a little lonely to work in. having the support of people who can understand you and you way of working cannot be understated. i would have found my current job an absolute 'mare if i had stepped off the plane and been thrown straight in. if i were you go for a large hagwon.
(ps. turtlepi and grotto, i too was in suwon pizzaing. i think i know who you both are...) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Derrek wrote: |
CM,
I'd get together with your school and accuse them of copyright violation. Sure, that's a joke when outside copyright (out-of-Korea produced materieals) are involved, but when it's between two Korean organizations, it's treated much more seriously. |
I think that the public school teachers rely on the hogwons going over whatever is in class for testing material. The only it time comes up is during test season when the korean teacher says what's going to be tested on.
| Quote: |
| Having first (ok second) hand knowledge of the public school classroom I can't really blame the hagwon for filling a void. Let's face it..the argument is "chicken and the egg" Public schools suck...(that doesn't make GEPIK people bad teachers the system is broken and the stop gap solutions don't make it better) |
Anytime I talk to parents about education they are always asking what could we do to make it better. I always hear 'how about an 'english village?' or 'more native speakers'. I always say that they need to take even a fraction of the money that is spent on hogwns and pump it back into the public system to lower class sizes.
My students are shocked that my brother's classes are no bigger than 20 (he goes to a private school though).
Still the public system isn't that bad. It's jsut underfunded and still needs to get rid of some of the old guard who's educational philsophy hasn't moved with the time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crazylemongirl wrote: |
Still the public system isn't that bad. It's jsut underfunded and still needs to get rid of some of the old guard who's educational philsophy hasn't moved with the time. |
I think it IS that bad.
(In the West, public schooling is horrible and in Korea it is even worse because people have accepted it sucks and the attitude is if you don't like it send your kids to hagwons. Which I think is even worse than the mentality in the West of private schools.)
The classes are huge.
The teachers (generally) don't give a damn...(too many students too many levels can't make a difference)
If by the old guard you mean firing 40% of the current teaching staff I might agree. If you mean turning over an administration that cares more about their superiors than education I would agree with that too.
If you are stupid in Korea, public school isn't going to change that...and the definition of stupid is "low on cash".
On the plus side my students are at least 2 grade levels above the materials being caught in public school so they won't be the ones left behind. It will be the kids from poor families or ones that haven't found the "right" hagwon.
One might say 2 grade levels ahead in English doesn't mean everything but the way university entrance exams are weighted it is the better part of it. (Besides they go to hagwons for everything else too) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
The classes are huge.
The teachers (generally) don't give a damn...(too many students too many levels can't make a difference)
If by the old guard you mean firing 40% of the current teaching staff I might agree. If you mean turning over an administration that cares more about their superiors than education I would agree with that too. |
My experience working with my korean english co-teachers is that most of them give a damn about their kids. 2 out of my 5 english teachers are currently studying towards their masters in educational philsophy. They are interested in my views on teaching and assesment that I've been running in my winter school (for example instead of giving a written grammar test I had them create an advertisement and graded them off that).
Also the philsophy has changed a lot if you look at the seventh cirrculum that was bought in which is far more child centered. That's already drifting down into the lower levels and will continue to do so.
| Quote: |
| If you are stupid in Korea, public school isn't going to change that...and the definition of stupid is "low on cash". |
They ain't just a korean thing. 80% of my university school leaver intake came from the 10 richest schools in auckland.
The thing that makes the new zealand system different is that kids are expected to have a more well rounded education (active in extra cirrcula activities) in order to be viewed a success there. Here it's practically non existent as they are relearning the stuff they need in order to pass the next test. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| can someone tell me how a newbie's request for advice became a pissing match over the merits of the public school system ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| peppermint wrote: |
| can someone tell me how a newbie's request for advice became a pissing match over the merits of the public school system ? |
It's not a pissing match...
It's a discussion.
And it appears to me the OP actually asked about hagwons and Public schools.
Crazylemongirl: Glad to hear that your teachers are good. Quite a few of the teachers are taking masters programs, going overseas for a year etc. but a portion of these teachers are STILL the teachers that put on the CD-rom and sit at their desk. Just because they are into advancing their education doesn't mean it directly helps the students.
(and by the way when I crit. the teachers I hold the system responsible not the teachers...they are a product of the system. Even teachers who want to make a difference get screwed...)
Are there good public school teachers? For sure.
Are they as effective as they could be? For sure - not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
littlebluebg
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject: thanks |
|
|
ok well i appreciate all the advice! i dont have a degree in education, i have a ba in women's studies (and no i'm not a hard core feminist - more of a super laid back one actually), really i was just presssed to pick a major after not having one for so long, and that was my best bet as far as finishing kinda soon (at the time). woah did that even make sense? but i have been a swim coach for 2 years dealin with kids from 4 yrs to 17 yrs, and i was a nanny all last summer for a 1 year old, 5 year old and a 14 yr old. so despite my lack of education degrees, i am super good with kids and why am i explaining this to u g uys - beats me. im in a rambling mood tonight, i just sent my ex boyfriend like two pages worth of stuff to read. hah. lovely. anyways i think i'll go for a hagwan, and i'll run it by all u once i get a contract - it'll be a few months cus i'm i nmy sissies wedding in may. so gotta wait til after that. ok thanks again ppl!
-bg |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
