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Sunday night news show on Illegal ESL teachers
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Butterfly



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paperbag princess wrote:
i don't hate korea, but i hate some things about it (the racism, sexism and the homophobia are the three biggest things). if they don't want foreigners here, than why bother hiring us?


Yes Korea is a a hypocrite isn't it? Rolling Eyes
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butterfly wrote:
paperbag princess wrote:
i don't hate korea, but i hate some things about it (the racism, sexism and the homophobia are the three biggest things). if they don't want foreigners here, than why bother hiring us?


Yes Korea is a a hypocrite isn't it? Rolling Eyes


I'd hazard a guess and say that 96% of Koreans think it's cute and amusing to have a few foreigners run around the place. Until, that is, you try and date their daughter. There's the rub.
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McNasty



Joined: 04 Jul 2003

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eamo wrote:
Quote:
I'd hazard a guess and say that 96% of Koreans think it's cute and amusing to have a few foreigners run around the place. Until, that is, you try and date their daughter. There's the rub.


I once asked a Korean guy what he thought about foreigners dating/getting married to Korean women and he was fine with it. Then I took it one step further and asked how he would feel about his daughter dating a foreigner and he quickly changed his tune. I believe his words were, "I would forbid it."
Rolling Eyes
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dcrayne



Joined: 25 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

everyone needs to relax. we have a great life here. who cares what people think. I'm here because I want to be here. I enjoy my time here. I asked my adult students what they thought of the program and they didn't care. They know who is a good teacher and who is not.









Me fail English? That's unpossible!
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panthermodern



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Taxronto

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like it is good time for EnforCorp to make a big comeback.

The MBC story is just this years' anti-foreigner sentiment.

This foreign teaching hating thing is not new, but a re-emerging fad, kind of like bell bottoms.
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase



Joined: 04 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badmojo wrote:
Remember where you are, we are the outsiders here. It doesn't matter what we think, or how we feel. Korea IS for Koreans.


While the term "guest" is often used here in a sanctimonious way, at least it is technically true. On the other hand, labelling all expats as "outsiders" will do nothing to win over those on the other side of the ideological fence.

In fact, your self-righteous reaction to Zen's more balanced post could well have the opposite effect intended. If you are trying to sell yourself as a culturally adjusted expat, many here would avoid taking the same path.
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

panthermodern wrote:
Looks like it is good time for EnforCorp to make a big comeback.

The MBC story is just this years' anti-foreigner sentiment.

This foreign teaching hating thing is not new, but a re-emerging fad, kind of like bell bottoms.


First, who/what is "EnforCorp"?

Second, let's assume you are correct that this is not a distinct and justifiable backlash against bad ESL teachers and an industry that has failed to police itself. So then, what exactly do you think is the point of this foreign teacher-hating "fad"? What interests of the Koreans are being served here? How is directing the national ire against ESL teachers helping to advance those interests?

Could it be that Koreans simply get a warm, fuzzy feeling from whipping up free-floating hate-ons against random groups of foreigners in their midst?

When it comes to lathering up the masses against Japan over Dokdo or China over Goguryo, those debates tap centuries-old wellsprings of bitter history, antagonism and shame. There will be protests in front of embassies, there will be documentary after documentary on TV... but (I'm not Japanese or Chinese, so I can't be sure) it doesn't seem to get so personal, so "in your face" as this.

ESL teachers?? There is no great store of ignominies handed down over the ages, no tearful tales from defiled grandmothers, no bitter military defeats.... You're mostly young guys & girls, you've only been here in any real numbers for a few years, and you're not even all from the same country!

So, what's gotten into them?! Why are they so over-the-top about this?

I have my own opinions, Panther, but I'd like to hear your read on this phenomenon first if I might.
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Badmojo



Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote:
Badmojo wrote:
Remember where you are, we are the outsiders here. It doesn't matter what we think, or how we feel. Korea IS for Koreans.


While the term "guest" is often used here in a sanctimonious way, at least it is technically true. On the other hand, labelling all expats as "outsiders" will do nothing to win over those on the other side of the ideological fence.

In fact, your self-righteous reaction to Zen's more balanced post could well have the opposite effect intended. If you are trying to sell yourself as a culturally adjusted expat, many here would avoid taking the same path.


Zen's problem?

Let me see if I have it right.

Zen's words, "Running away from a problem is not very far from just sitting there and whining about it."

Badmojo's response, "Whining about a problem is exactly the same as just sitting there and whining about it."

And doing nothing about it, I might add.

I'm not the one whining about our portrayal in the media. I'm not the one condemning this country. I'm not the one up in arms.

Well-balanced? I'd say it's way off kilter pal.
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a few Koreans saw that show. Maybe we aren't such a big deal. What do we make up, less than a tenth of one percent of the people in this country? We are small fry.
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Badmojo



Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jajdude wrote:
Maybe a few Koreans saw that show. Maybe we aren't such a big deal. What do we make up, less than a tenth of one percent of the people in this country? We are small fry.


Word up,

We're not so important.

Get over yourselves.

Those who permanently reside here and face an upward battle, good luck to you.


Last edited by Badmojo on Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Butterfly



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eamo wrote:
Butterfly wrote:
paperbag princess wrote:
i don't hate korea, but i hate some things about it (the racism, sexism and the homophobia are the three biggest things). if they don't want foreigners here, than why bother hiring us?


Yes Korea is a a hypocrite isn't it? Rolling Eyes


I'd hazard a guess and say that 96% of Koreans think it's cute and amusing to have a few foreigners run around the place. Until, that is, you try and date their daughter. There's the rub.


Well, I know circumstantial evidence doesn't account for much, but I was at a wedding a year ago, and a woman on my table was telling me proudly how her daughter had married an Israeli guy, and what a big house they had in Tel Aviv and how she spends so much time there during the year, the family, she told me, are very kind.

What we English teachers have to face to a certain extent is that the problem may not exclusively be because we are foreigners that parents are rather dubious about our dating their daughters, it may also be that we are working without much in the way of career prosepcts, in unstable working conditions, without that many chances to earn more money than we do now, most of us don't have much in the way of 'family money' as they often do, and since the women we date are largely educated women from middle class families, their parents are, understandably, concerned. I think I would be a bit. They know how this industry doesn't much like old teachers and prosepcts in the EFL industry are slim.

A female friend of mine recently asked me if I knew any guys she could have a blind date with; but not foreigners. I said "What's wrong with foreigners?" and she replied that nothing was, just the foreigners here.

I'm not blind, I know xenophobia exists here, of course it does, but it's by no means the only force in play when parents show some resistence to the idea of their daughter making plans with us.
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chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jajdude wrote:
Maybe a few Koreans saw that show. Maybe we aren't such a big deal. What do we make up, less than a tenth of one percent of the people in this country? We are small fry.


Even less than that. I remember a figure that E2 teachers make up 2.5% of the whole foreigner population, let alone the entire population.
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nateyb



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Location: witness protection program (or Bundang)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badmojo wrote:
jajdude wrote:
Maybe a few Koreans saw that show. Maybe we aren't such a big deal. What do we make up, less than a tenth of one percent of the people in this country? We are small fry.


Word up,

We're not so important.

Get over yourselves.

Those with fill an upward battle, good luck to you.



But in my opinion, Koreans see those small fries as a big fly in their preverbial soup.

Worrying about it won't do any good, but be careful for a backlash from your bosses, because there will be.
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chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nateyb wrote:



But in my opinion, Koreans see those small fries as a big fly in their preverbial soup.

Worrying about it won't do any good, but be careful for a backlash from your bosses, because there will be.


In what regard are you implying?
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nateyb



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Location: witness protection program (or Bundang)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there have been some other threads about contracts and possible backlash...

maybe I'm just being pessimistic...
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