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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: Is man basically evil? |
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I believe that people are basically evil. Civilization is the thin veneer that keeps us from degenerating back into violence and random victimization. The only thing that keeps most of us from showing our evil is the knowledge that someone, somewhere has a bigger gun. (Metaphorically speaking, of course.) Of course, there are exceptions to every rule. But I believe that there aren't enough exceptions to be the rule.
If you set a piece of fruit 100 yards in front of two starving people, they don't walk over hand in hand and divide up the fruit evenly. They run towards it, kicking and shoving each other to try and eat it first.
What do you think the ultimate fate of humanity will be and why?
You? What thinkee? |
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W.T.Carl
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| If you agree with Hobbes, as I do, yes. If you agree with Voltaire, no. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hello, Superfly!
Before I answer your question, I invite you to write down the following questions
and list as many items as possible under each question:
1. What do children like which is good for them?
2. What do children NOT like which is NOT good for them?
3. What do children like which is NOT good for them?
4. What do children NOT like which is good for them?
Here are my answers to the questions:
1. What do children like which is good for them?
friends, juicy fruit, milk, exercise, healthy affection
2. What do children NOT like which is NOT good for them?
wild animals, sharp objects, unhealthy affection
3. What do children like which is NOT good for them?
excessive TV and video, junk food
4. What do children NOT like which is good for them?
homework, medicine, shots at the doctor's office
If Voltaire were right, we would only have items listed under Questions 1 and 2.
If Hobbes were right, we would only have items listed under Questions 3 and 4.
If Locke were right, we would not have items listed under any of these questions.
How are children born, then?
If your answers are anything like mine, you will find that most of the answers to Questions 1 and 2 are items which were available to children a million years ago whereas most of the answers to Questions 3 and 4 are modern inventions.
My answer, then, is that children are born with the instincts necessary for survival in the wilderness. |
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The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes. |
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Evil? No.
Selfish? Yes. |
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drgoo
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Location: Home, sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Evil is a concept. If man is evil, then man is a concept.
Sure, I'm ok with that.
goo |
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sonofthedarkstranger
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Is man basically evil? |
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| SuperFly wrote: |
| I believe that people are basically evil. |
What is evil?
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Civilization is the thin veneer that keeps us from degenerating back into violence and random victimization. |
And civilization is the creation of humans.
| Quote: |
The only thing that keeps most of us from showing our evil is the knowledge that someone, somewhere has a bigger gun.
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What do you think most people would do if there were no laws? Go on joy-kill sprees? I think most people, certainly not all but most, would mind their own business. Sure, you'd see violence pick up if there were scarcity of food or resources, as you've mentioned below. Also you'd probably see more killings of passion--jealous lovers and whatnot. Neither of those things, to me, are "evil."
I don't think many people at all would go out and start killing, raping, pillaging just because they could.
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If you set a piece of fruit 100 yards in front of two starving people, they don't walk over hand in hand and divide up the fruit evenly. They run towards it, kicking and shoving each other to try and eat it first.
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It depends. I can see situations in which they'd share, or one would give it to the other. And even granting that what you've described would happen in most cases, I don't think that makes us "evil." Any other animal would do that, and they wouldn't even need to be starving. Are animals evil? I don't think so either.
| Cthulhu wrote: |
Evil? No.
Selfish? Yes. |
Exactly.
I think we are all capable of things we have no idea we are capable of. I think it takes certain stressors to bring us to do those things, however.
I'd say as a species, we have the potential for evil, we have evil or perhaps the ingredients for evil inside us. Often that potential is fully realized. However I think it's a bit simplistic to say man is "basically evil" meaning that evil is the fundamental defining quality of man. I think that statement is at worst, intended for shock value and at best, meant to be thought-provoking. We are more complex creatures than that. Humans are neither "good" nor "evil." We are both, and everything in between. |
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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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OK Cthulahoop,  I always wanted to say that to ya How far down the evil scale is selfishness? And thanks for all your answers btw, I didn't mean that man was born evil, just that he develops the attitude of "Me first" over time...corruption...he becomes corrupted over time, as he grows older. I feel it happening to me.
I also believe "good" to be good intentions, and there is very much good in the world. Unfortunately, all of the good intentions in the world don't make it a good place without action...and that's the problem, too few people take action for good in this world to really make a difference.
Also, just for kicks, I'm throwing this in: Think of the story of Cain and Abel. Cain and Abel, being brothers, were probably raised fairly similarly. One becomes the epitome of righteousness for a while to come, while the other one becomes the child that kills his brother. Doesn't that suggest that since they were raised fairly alike, it shows that nature, not nurture, is responsible for the evils inherent in human society? |
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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, using Cain and Able is prolly a bad example, right? |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Only some men are, and I'm thinking of one specifically.  |
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SarcasmKills
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Well according to the movie Constantine, man is born with the capacity to be either evil or good.. we're just very open and vulnerable to influences around us..
If it's in a movie with Keanu, it must be true right?
Right? |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Agree with Leviathan. |
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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superfly wrote:
Hey now, just because humans aren't evil doesn't mean Cthulhu isn't...
| Quote: |
| How far down the evil scale is selfishness? And thanks for all your answers btw, I didn't mean that man was born evil, just that he develops the attitude of "Me first" over time...corruption...he becomes corrupted over time, as he grows older. I feel it happening to me. |
I think selfishness is pretty much tied into what we are--the struggle for survival, propagation of the species, self-preservation etc. I don't think it's evil in its most basic forms. However, whether through genetics, mental disease, environmental or mystery reasons, its pretty obvious some people can become "bad" above and beyond selfishness--their moral compass is way out of whack if nothing else, and evil is probably the best way to describe them--mindful of the fact that the religious overtones of the word can cause other issues.
For the average person I think "evil" is simply "selfishness" and can be expected if not encouraged. Of course, I think a lot of supposedly "good" actions aren't truly good either, i.e., not altruistic. There are a few altruistic actions, but most of them benefit us in some way, even by something as simple as making us feel good.
bulsajo wrote:
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| Agree with Leviathan. |
Hey, Leviathan just happened to be on TV today...Peter Weller's range of facial expressions--now that's evil.  |
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Corporal
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Is man basically evil? |
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| SuperFly wrote: |
If you set a piece of fruit 100 yards in front of two starving people, they don't walk over hand in hand and divide up the fruit evenly. They run towards it, kicking and shoving each other to try and eat it first. |
That's self-preservation, not evil.
But yes, to answer your question. Yes. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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define evil:
1 a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED <an evil impulse> b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a man of evil reputation>
2 a archaic : INFERIOR b : causing discomfort or repulsion : OFFENSIVE <an evil odor> c : DISAGREEABLE <woke late and in an evil temper>
3 a : causing harm : PERNICIOUS <the evil institution of slavery> b : marked by misfortune : UNLUCKY
Evil is the label society places upon actions.
Evil can also be defined by the victors and historians. |
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