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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:34 am Post subject: Public Schools' Massive Face-saving Effort Underway! |
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Remember the Public School jobs posted everywhere?
Not enough teachers wanted to work for the crap they were offering, and a large percentage of the schools couldn't hire anyone before the start date!
We've all seen, and many of us have commented on the endless flood of several hundred public/private school jobs advertised on Dave's and WNP. I know of many recruiters who flat-out couldn't find people to take the jobs. My advisor asked me to help find people for at least 6 other schools on three different occassions!
The reason teachers weren't biting is because not enough were interested in sub-hagwon pay for more on-site hours and only 2 weeks of vacation a year, more paperwork, etc.
Few wanted the jobs, and many of those who signed on 6 months ago are in are unhappy and wanting to get out, according to what I'm reading on here.
Sounds like a huge embarrasement, right? So many open jobs that nobody wants? Now that they've had to bite the bullet, the school system prints this response in the newspaper:
"The recent SBS broadcast criticizing foreign teachers for not being qualified,etc.. has made many Public schools in Metropolitan Seoul rethink the idea of employing a foreign teacher at this current time. Many schools who had requested a foreign teacher for the March 2005 period have now cancelled the request due to the recent protests of both Korean citizens and parents. Due to this problem, we have had to cancel many teachers until the current issues are resolved/forgotten. "
It's akin to a 4 year-old begging for candy they can't have, then sticking their nose up in disgust after being denied and saying, "I never wanted it anyway!" |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| I agree after similar experiences. Public schools in Seoul want something for nothing. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Public Schools' Massive Face-saving Effort Underway! |
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| Derrek wrote: |
So many open jobs that nobody wants? Now that they've had to bite the bullet, the school system prints this response in the newspaper:
"The recent SBS broadcast criticizing foreign teachers for not being qualified,etc.. has made many Public schools in Metropolitan Seoul rethink the idea of employing a foreign teacher at this current time. Many schools who had requested a foreign teacher for the March 2005 period have now cancelled the request due to the recent protests of both Korean citizens and parents. Due to this problem, we have had to cancel many teachers until the current issues are resolved/forgotten. " |
I've asked perhaps twice on other threads and got no response, so I guess I'll keep on asking this:
The Spectrum/PB flap had all to do with foreign guys. The MBC & SBS "bad teacher"/drug-user exposes have focused exclusively on male foreign ESL teachers (I think). The recent fake-credential scandals at universities have involved guys.
So, why has the public backlash appeared so gender-inclusive? Are the women being unfairly tarred with the same broad brush as the men? Why don't schools like those that Derrek has quoted distinguish between male and female foreigners? Though it is certainly true that girls can fabricate credentials and teaching qualifications just as easily as the guys, do they actually? Would you say that the reality on the ground (who knows for sure, but surmise if you will) justifies Koreans' apprehensions that they have?
While we all know there are both male and female foreign ESL teachers in Korea, you wouldn't know that if all you saw or read were these latest scandals and "exposes". And you wouldn't know it from the comments of nutty netizens ("Deport all foreign teachers now!"  ) or from the comments of school administrators like the one Derrek has quoted.
| Quote: |
| It's akin to a 4 year-old begging for candy they can't have, then sticking their nose up in disgust after being denied and saying, "I never wanted it anyway!" |
There isn't a smooth translation or a ready idiom in Korean that I'm aware of, but most Koreans I've asked are familiar with the Aesop's Fable from whence comes "sour grapes". |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| It's akin to a 4 year-old begging for candy they can't have, then sticking their nose up in disgust after being denied and saying, "I never wanted it anyway!" |
It's a web of lies! A tangled web of lies! A tangled web of lies, a $400.00 bottle of whisky, a fruit plate that looks like a peacock and some barbecued squid! A tangled web of lies, a $400.00 bottle of whiskey, a fruit plate that looks like a peacock, some barbecued squid and a bunch of unilingual, blinkered girls with no employment prospects or future thanks to a country that keeps them in the gutter that will latch on to me and my 2 mill like a psychotic Filipina wanting her barfine! I'm gonna ride that train! I'm gonna be on TV! |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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My take on this: Spectrumgate was long overdue and it's sad that it took a bunch of Koreans making comments with racist overtones for people to realize that talking about other people the way that the Playboy and his readers did simply isn't a good thing to do.
Obviously racism was a big factor in the "scandal " and I kept waiting for the Korean women's groups to speak up for the local women and their right to date whoever they wanted. I don't think Western women will get any sort of backlash from it because there doesn't seem to be the same attitudes when Korean man dates a foreigner.
Regarding the SBS show- I think women will feel a bit of the heat from this. I had a job interview last week and they asked about my current visa status and wether or not I was working legally.
From what I've heard, immigration is starting to tighten up the rules, which might be good for the whole industry- assuming of course that they remember to inform us of the changes. I had a job |
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inkoreaforgood
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Location: Inchon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
My take on this: Spectrumgate was long overdue and it's sad that it took a bunch of Koreans making comments with racist overtones for people to realize that talking about other people the way that the Playboy and his readers did simply isn't a good thing to do.
Obviously racism was a big factor in the "scandal " and I kept waiting for the Korean women's groups to speak up for the local women and their right to date whoever they wanted. I don't think Western women will get any sort of backlash from it because there doesn't seem to be the same attitudes when Korean man dates a foreigner.
Regarding the SBS show- I think women will feel a bit of the heat from this. I had a job interview last week and they asked about my current visa status and wether or not I was working legally.
From what I've heard, immigration is starting to tighten up the rules, which might be good for the whole industry- assuming of course that they remember to inform us of the changes. I had a job |
I applied for E2 visa renewal and an F2 visa as well, almost a month ago. I went in to pick up my card and passport last friday, the date on the receipt was last friday. I got some crap story about how the gov't didn't send them enough cards, and it'll take another week for them to be ready. I'm asumming they are running some background check on my education. First time ever in 8 years!! Cover yer arse!!!
And the whole issue of women teachers being ignored, or thrown into the same basket as the males: that's Korea. Often logic and reason are missing in discussions that should require them. In Korean society, pride, ignorance and fear go together like my wife's cheesecake and coffee. Not that instant crap coffee either. It's always fun to throw a wrench into the works though, hope someone does point out the illogical obvious about the GEPIK program's claim(in a public manner). |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| It's only fair that we should be treated the men when it comes to issues of working illegally. We're just as capable as the guys. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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So, maybe, if I was conspiracy minded I might suspect that the Ministry of Ed. is behind all this mud slinging?
Actually speaking of those "enlightened fools" I have been seeing A NUMBER of signs around (from them) asking for people to report "illegal teachers" (anyone working privately.. not just foreigners). |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
My take on this: Spectrumgate was long overdue and it's sad that it took a bunch of Koreans making comments with racist overtones for people to realize that talking about other people the way that the Playboy and his readers did simply isn't a good thing to do.
Obviously racism was a big factor in the "scandal " and I kept waiting for the Korean women's groups to speak up for the local women and their right to date whoever they wanted. I don't think Western women will get any sort of backlash from it because there doesn't seem to be the same attitudes when Korean man dates a foreigner.
Regarding the SBS show- I think women will feel a bit of the heat from this. I had a job interview last week and they asked about my current visa status and wether or not I was working legally.
From what I've heard, immigration is starting to tighten up the rules, which might be good for the whole industry- assuming of course that they remember to inform us of the changes. I had a job |
Typical and disappointing comment from peppermint. Thanks for the solidarity - NOT!
You miss the whole point of this 'scandal'. What guys say in the locker room or on an anonymous internet forum does not constitute 'news fit to print'. The SBS program was a piece of gutter journalism and they didnt make any attempt to independently verify the claims that they were making on the show. Foreigners should not make any attempt to answer the claims on the show. Instead we should tell Koreans what we think of it - that it is ethnic slander. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Why should I show solidarity for men who should know better. I didn't see the SBS show, so why comment on it. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| peppermint wrote: |
My take on this: Spectrumgate was long overdue and it's sad that it took a bunch of Koreans making comments with racist overtones for people to realize that talking about other people the way that the Playboy and his readers did simply isn't a good thing to do.
Obviously racism was a big factor in the "scandal " and I kept waiting for the Korean women's groups to speak up for the local women and their right to date whoever they wanted. I don't think Western women will get any sort of backlash from it because there doesn't seem to be the same attitudes when Korean man dates a foreigner.
Regarding the SBS show- I think women will feel a bit of the heat from this. I had a job interview last week and they asked about my current visa status and wether or not I was working legally.
From what I've heard, immigration is starting to tighten up the rules, which might be good for the whole industry- assuming of course that they remember to inform us of the changes. I had a job |
Typical and disappointing comment from peppermint. Thanks for the solidarity - NOT!
You miss the whole point of this 'scandal'. What guys say in the locker room or on an anonymous internet forum does not constitute 'news fit to print'. The SBS program was a piece of gutter journalism and they didnt make any attempt to independently verify the claims that they were making on the show. Foreigners should not make any attempt to answer the claims on the show. Instead we should tell Koreans what we think of it - that it is ethnic slander. |
Hmm...
*taps left foot* ...
*draws breath*
Thank you, Peppermint, for your response to my question. I'd like to follow up on some things you've said, but I that's going to have to wait a bit.
Shakuhachi, if you're looking for solidarity on this subject -- from the Korean public, the ESL market (employers, students or parents), or even from your own fellow teachers & non-teacher ex-pats -- I suggest you not hold your breath. That's because there isn't one, singular "whole point of this scandal".
Sensationalist journalism? Hearsay presented as fact? Ugly rumours aired or quoted and just left to stink up the place without ever being verified? Race-baiting? Talk about something not being news, that's really NOT NEWS here. Shall we all be crusaders for truth and even-handedness in Korean media? Or just when it affects us?
"Foreigners should not make any attempt to answer the claims on the show."
Who's asking you to answer those claims? I might be interested in your opinion and in Peppermint's, but I don't imagine most Koreans are interested in foreigners' answers to those claims. Koreans will decide how to deal with this issue on their own, I am sure of it.
And I certainly don't see a show (or lack) of "solidarity" among ESL teachers as mattering one way or 'tother with respect to what Koreans decide to do. If the ES/PB scandal really was "not news" and if the SBS programme was pure hogwash utterly divorced from reality, then why would you insist that Peppermint & others see things your way? Whatever could your opinion matter in the grand scheme of things if, as you seem to be saying, Koreans aren't prepared to let facts or reality get in their way or cloud their beliefs? |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| And I certainly don't see a show (or lack) of "solidarity" among ESL teachers as mattering one way or 'tother with respect to what Koreans decide to do. If the ES/PB scandal really was "not news" and if the SBS programme was pure hogwash utterly divorced from reality, then why would you insist that Peppermint & others see things your way? Whatever could your opinion matter in the grand scheme of things if, as you seem to be saying, Koreans aren't prepared to let facts or reality get in their way or cloud their beliefs? |
Im not sure what you are trying to say. Is it that we should just wait for things to blow over? Or that wanting Koreans to follow basic journalistic ethics is too much to expect from them?
I dont know why peppermint and unnamed others wouldnt see things my way. Maybe its because they dont have stake in it. All I am saying is that foreigners shouldnt lay down and take it timidly. A job in the ESL industry just isnt worth selling your soul for. |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Im with Shaku on this one. The SBS "report" was absolutely horrible. In what twisted world do YOU live in PEPPERMINT that 5% of a group is held up as an example of the entire group? The "bad teachers" (is it realy bad to go to Hongdae on the weekend anyway?) were not the only target, ALL foreign teachers were targets. It has gotten so bad that death threats were made on the SBS site, people wanting to pay money for the death of foreign teachers. Can you imagine a CNN forum where people are offering their entire paycheck to anyone who kills a muslim? A side effect of it was an attack on Korean women dating or married to foreigners. Infact, the whole anti foreigner thing quickly mutated into anti Korean women dating foreigners. Why the %*@! should my wife be a target of hate fueled by the worst reporting in the world because some foreigner is working illegally and a few foreigners go whoring in Hongdae? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| Can you imagine a CNN forum where people are offering their entire paycheck to anyone who kills a muslim? |
Well, not CNN mabye but take a boo at any Yahoo news message board. Lord. It's worse. |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| Can you imagine a CNN forum where people are offering their entire paycheck to anyone who kills a muslim? |
Well, not CNN mabye but take a boo at any Yahoo news message board. Lord. It's worse. |
SBS is a broadcasting network like CNN, supposedly. Id liken Yahoo to Naver not SBS. |
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