Korean Job Discussion Forums

[justin moffatt]

After countless years searching various job websites, there appears to be a pattern of english teaching related jobs as becoming less and less appealing in Korea.

For example, many University jobs seem to have less vacation time, more teaching hours, and less pay. Not to mention, REQUIRED Masters in TESOL.

Secondly, many full time corporate english teaching jobs salaries have decreased. Not to mention, hourly rates for part time positions.

Thirdly, recent advertisements for public school positions have dropped from a high of 2.7mil (aprox 15-20 base teaching hours) to lows of 1.8mil for exact same positions.

Are the recruiters just getting more greedy, or is something else going on? With all the pitfalls of living in Korea, and for those who need to jump through various hoops to get Visas, why are the previous quality jobs becoming worse?

[Intrepid]

I posted recently on a similar topic. I just finished three years at a decent university job--decent except that I couldn't stay more than three...
The good jobs supposedly don't advertise, but even the offers I've had through connections (Sungkyunkwan, Sejong) were not good.
Korea University in Jochiwon had a decent deal, but I didn't want to move there.
Dankook U was the best offer I had, but it was a pay cut of 300,000 won per month, three additional hours per week (total 15), and I would have to quit my part-time summer work. Had to tell them no.
My anecdotal evidence that jobs are getting worse...

[Real Reality]

[justin moffatt]

Real Reality:

Whenever Homers done with those rose-colored glasses, I'd love to borrow them . . .

Darn it. I knew I should have swallowed the red pill . . .

In other news: Let's stick to the topic at hand, ok?

[Real Reality]

[SirFink]

The majority of jobs listed here on Dave's are either public school jobs (8:30am-4:30pm 4-5 classes a day) or Hagwon jobs, more and more of which seem to be 10am-6pm with 3 or 4 hours of kindy in the mornings. Pay is the same for both types.

You really have to wonder who would choose the Hagwon over the public school job. Teach more classes for an evil boss who doesn't pay me on time and get punched in the balls for 3 hours every morning or get paid to sit at a desk for 8 hours a day and get paid on time. Hmmm, tough one.

No surprise that Hagwons are so clueless and haven't adjusted to the competition from public schools but it doesn't bode well for all those predictions about the new E2 regs actually leading to better jobs (i.e. fewer hours and higher pay).

[littlelisa]

[justin moffatt]

Thanks Intrepid.

Anybody else have any thoughts or evidence concerning this perceived pattern?

[Shimokitazawa]

The University EFL jobs are going downhill.

Caps on number of contract renewals are becoming more pervasive, especially in Seoul. Compulsory winter and summer teaching is becoming the norm. More hours are required.

I think hogwan jobs have pretty much stayed the same but I've noticed that the university contracts are not as attractive as they used to be.

In fact, most of the university adverts. on Dave's are pretty bad.

[Intrepid]

I was thinking about why this might be so, reasons might be that universities have figured out (1) They don't really need excellent teachers and (2) With the hagwons offering terrible positions, unis don't have to be much better to seem much more attractive. Even the "stigma" of working at a hagwon might be considered, if one has been in Korea for a long time. How much bettter to say "I work at Podunk Univeristy! Podunk, yes, but also UNIVERSITY!"
For someone working at a hagwon making 2.4 for 30 hours a week, teaching university students (older, more mature than hagwon kids, mostly) 18 hours a week for 2.1 seems fantastic. If there's some vacation thrown in, all the better.
When the university boom started in 1994-6 (my estimate), unis just paid foreign teachers the same as entry-level professors, even calling a BA Geology guy in the English department "Professor". Disillusionment set in, and we see today's situation.
Interestingly, the place I worked paid well compared to what's on offer now, but the professors there often said that my wages were a "pity" and that they wished they could offer me more.
My prediction--most university jobs will descend to just above hagwon level, and hagwons will have to offer more, especially with the new E2 situation.

[Shimokitazawa]

[zizi]

Jobs won't get better until the Korean public accepts/becomes aware of how unqualified so many hagwon owners are to be offering English education.

[Juregen]

It is a trend that the entire industry is decreasing the quality of their H&R efforts.

Every contract they lower it a tiny itsy bitsy, and then you end up with a lot of bad contracts that get accepted by people who have low expectancies.

There are probably some institutions still left that don't mind forking out a little more, but due to the industry being swamped by John Doe with a BA. it is very difficult to find those who are really commited.

ESL industry will continue down this path, until parents can finally distuingish the hagwons who put a lot of effort in finding the good teachers and those who just hire any white face.

The customers in the ESL industry are blind, and therefore can be easily fooled. This is ofcourse a generalisation, but my personal experience in offering private education has led me to believe that some parents haven't the foggiest.

[Juregen]

[justin moffatt]

I concur with many opinions posted here (especially Intrepid and Shimokitazawa). However, I seriously doubt there will be any pay increases (regardless of demand for teachers). Logically, this would make sense within a western perspective (supply and demand). The comments by Juregen and Intrepid seem to ring true. Many universities and companies may be realizing that they do not need highly qualified instructors, and therefore are paying less. Ironically, they still advertise for REQUIRED graduate degrees in Education/TESOL/MBA without accounting for appropiate salary increases.

In other words, it appears that although Koreans are screaming for better educational systems, that in reality, many people are not willing to do what is neccesary to ensure quality education (hogwan or otherwise). It always boils down to an issue of money. Hence, the absence of Foreign Universities here (Korean money going overseas) and the abudance of poorly organized and inadequate education at hogwans in Korea (why pay more for quailty education when it's cheaper here). This seems to be a consistent pattern with Koreans attending educational institutions overseas. Many Korean students prefer to attend a lower cost educational institution, even if the standards of education are lower.

Perhaps, regulatory boards and standardization is the key. Who knows . ..