Korean Job Discussion Forums

[textin]

I have heard recently that the foreign teacher 'problem' has become quite a high ranking social issue in Korea.
how to deal with all the heathen foreign teachers living in Korea.

Surely one simple solution would be to change the length of Canadian tourist visas to 3 months instead of 6.

If Canadian working holiday makers were forced to leave the Country every 3 months instead of 6, that would be 500,000 odd less drinking money they would have each quarter and might see them start to take working more seriously.

Of course the Canadian Gvt might not be to happy about the change in the agreement and Koreans might lose the visa benefits they have in Canada also.

In regard to young, irresponsible degree qualified teachers on E2 visas...what can be done about that?

I don��t know. If the Koreans were successful in somehow making it less enjoyable for these people to live here for ...they might find they couldn��t actually get the teachers they demand.

[GoingBackOrElse]

First off, I'm an American from upstate NH. I too have beef with my NA bretheren from the North. Used to invade the state booze store I worked in as a teen all the time and buy up all the JD and smokes. Cheaper in the states I hear.

What's your beef with 'em?

Second...

"In regard to young, irresponsible degree qualified teachers on E2 visas...what can be done about that?"

Create a min age requirement... create more stringent degree checking programs... ect...

Thirdly...

" I don��t know. If the Koreans were successful in somehow making it less enjoyable for these people to live here for ...they might find they couldn��t actually get the teachers they demand."

Precisely! They couldn't get the quality or numbers of teachers they demand. That's why the situaition has been allowed to fester for as long as it has! and from what I see now from the experts on this baord (who I agree with) it never will really change. I remember talking to teachers in Seoul back in the day who complained about the same stuff then too! So parents, the gov. and korean society as a whole settle for what they can.

Koreans aren't anymore stupid/culturally backward than any other group. Shit, I'm an American... how srewed up are we? Koreans want what is best for themselves and thier children. The real solution is for koreans to accept that they, like evryone else, can't have it exactly how they want it. Not everyone who goes to Korea will have a masters in edu. Not every teacher there will be the greatest in the world. Yet by eliminating the teachers who graduated from WhatsaMattaU would go a long way.

But then the problem becomes whether or not there will be enough warm bodies in front of the chalk boards. Which takes us back to the teachers, more importantly the #'s of teachers, that they indeed demand.

Quite the paradox don't you think? And it isn't any of ours to solve.

Look, I'm not back in Korea yet... so I am forced to admit I am talking out of my a$$ a little bit here. And yes: when there the last time I fell under SOFA, not E-2 regulations. No, I don't know how hard and frustrating it CAN BE for all of you. Alas I do know this...

Keep your heads down, mouths shut and try your best to do your job. If you don't like it than leave. AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE OPTION! I didn't the last time I was there and still I choose to return (sort of a dream i want to live out... expatriation that is). If it sucks... leave. No matter what you do next... be sure to research it harder than you did the last major travel/ work decision you made.

Remeber, no matter how hard anyone tries... they can't take away your birthday.

[Blind Willie]

They always come crawling out late at night...

[itaewonguy]

who really gives a shit...
the koreans will get over it soon enough.. they are happy to make this news for a while keep it off the corrupted politicians who are destroying this country day by day.. a few English teachers on tourist visas! you really think koreans give a *beep*? thats not what they hate!
what they hate is.. first the men are shagging the girls..
AND second they are making more money than most average koreans!
they whats they hate! thats what they want to see in the news!
they wont show little jonny in the hakwon not learning his ABCS properly becuase his teacher didnt graduate UNI there for he doesnt know his ABCS himself to teach!
they will show some pisshead foreigner loser! who will get on tape and say! YEAH MAN! koreans one big HAREM man.. I bang on the girls here man they ar eeasy! its so easy to make money here man!!
I use korea as my own personal ATM!!
thats WHAT THEY WILL SHOW!!
thats what will make koreans angry! thats what they want to see in the papers! THE EVIL FOREIGNERS! they are all EVIL!!
makes them feel more superior you see..

[Captain Corea]

I think itaewonguy hit it right on the head. Anyone who has been in Corea long enough knows that things blow up... and then settle down. The question is; will these be more fodder for the fire before it cools off?

[Squid]

"Fodder for the fire"...good one

[paperbag princess]

i beleive that korea has threatened to end the 6 month tourist visa before and the canadian gov't said that if we get 3 months, then they get 3 months. there are actually a lot more korean who travel to canada than vice versa (based solely on the fact that there are 46 million koreans and 30 million canadians, and that most canadians don't want to learn korean).

besides putting the blame on teachers doesn't fix anything, why not explain to the masses that being racist and xenophoic is something that a developed country isn't allowed to be. if you wanna play with the big kids, than you need an attitude adjustment.

[textin]

Nice to see reasoned replies, not just paranoid retaliation posts.

If they offer an E2 Visa system that gives you no guarantees at all and 30-40% of people end up getting shafted at least once during their stay (possible higher), then they can only ever attract pirate/mercenary quality teachers.
Most teachers here at some stage experience working with a dishonest businessman/woman and /or a helpless immigration department.
Those teachers of sound mind and high levels of achievement tend to avoid the place. In a nutshell, it��s third rate.
The is a generalization of course and there are always exceptions to the rule.
But it makes me realize, the second part to the SBS documentary that they didn��t produce: why does Korea attract so many pirate teachers as opposed to good quality ones.
If that program was made, it would actually help them, not just fire them up on some false moral superiority ride (with racist overtones).

[cellphone]

I'm not up all in this conversation, but one thought: Why in the F would you as a foreigner (a) want to somehow take it upon yourself to "organize the Korean system" as it is already deeply rooted to antagonize you use you and spit you out in the end (or even mid-way), and (b) why would you fall into the mindset that MBCSBS created with their late night cult-umentaries?

If I was the webmaster of this site I'd create a new rule, no more discussion of "trying to see things the way Koreans do." You and I are foreigners, we're here to get yours and get mine. Koreans have made it clear we are not them. We need NO sympathy for their plight. They are already passionate enough -- too much -- about their existence.

You guys who keep thinking with this viewpoint of a "checklist that can be implemented to suss out the teachers" not only have it wrong, but are disturbing. It's either naivete, or selfish greed that in the end will gain you nothing and lose you plenty. You made some good points Textin, but the many users that keep talking about putting the focus on the foreigner, are way overboard.

[Demophobe]

[the eye]

take at look at textin's previous posts before you try to engage in intelligent discussion with him.

the best posts (3) he made were deleted by the mods a while ago because he posted the name, photo, phone number and email addy of a girl that dumped him.

he also came on here, impersonating that girl, asking to meet foreign guys.

[lastat06513]

I know I am not the voice of reason nor do I intend to be,
I just want to expand alittle and recant some of the things I mentioned in my earlier posts.

I strongly feel that Korea and Canada should follow the same guidelines as Korea does with some of the other countries, commonwealth or not. The only reason Korea has a 6-month visa treaty with Canada is because of the loose immigration laws that it has compared to the US (trust me~ if the US didn't have a wad stuck up its butt in regards to immigration control, you would see more Koreans going there and also understand that more people tend to overstay their visits to the US more than they do in Canada....maybe).
Plus, from my understanding, under an H-1 visa, you are not suppose to teach anyway (so in essence, you are breaking the law that way too).

But I have met alot of people from Canada and elsewhere who have 6-month visas and they kept on coming and going almost endlessly until that one tragic moment when the immigration officer says "Wait!....why do you keep on coming back to Korea?" and unless you have a ring on your finger and tell them you are getting married, they might stamp your passport, but they will keep a watchful eye on whatever you do.

I have even seen Canadians denied employment because they have so many entry stamps in their passports. I agree, Koreans are not stupid and would never take them as being so.

Now about regulating the industry.....I have a simple answer for that.
Ban private language schools again.

These days, alot of companies are expanding to introduce English programs in public schools. I think that the MOE should take full responsibility for implimenting language programs for young learners so that the proper checks and verifications are done appropriately. Then they can do orientation courses for the new teachers and even try to give some cultural and language lessons so he/she can start to absorb the initial cultural shock of coming here.
They could hire BA holders as teachers in elementary thru middle schools and then hire MED for colleges/universites and even for some government agencies. Plus, give incentives for teachers to continue their education or to sponsor some kind of teaching and development course to improve and develop the new teachers with new skills to teach their students

If they centralized the industry and close alot of these shoddy places might put alot of people out of a job, but it would help the overall educational atmosphere in Korea.

Also, how to get rid of the seasonal "backpacker"......that could be done by having the person come on one visa at a time and have them apply for each new visit, like they do in China.

But the flipside to that is that Korea might be able to get rid of the person that way.
But keep in mind, there are literally thousands of other legit visa holders who can teach privately and there would be nothing anyone could do about them;

They are;

1. Dependants of military/ Diplomatic staff
2. Business visas and their dependants
3. F-1 holders (legally, they are not suppose to work in Korea without an amendment to the visa)
4. F-3 holders (although they speak English, some don't even have degrees either)
5. Industrial trainees educated in western coiuntries

The sad part is that some of them would be willing to do the work for free just to have something to do.

So, this is a double-edged sword we are wielding. We can do some damage, but we can also do ourselves some harm.

Think about it....

[Pyongshin Sangja]

If the Koreans do that to the Canadians, I want stringent interviews for Americans at the Korean embassy and consulates in the US complete with bank statements to establish likelihood of return to the US, racial profiling and biometric scanning of all Americans at Incheon Airport. It's only fair, isn't it?

[Wangja]

Yep, reciprocity in all things.

Don't forget the 3 month wait for the first interview too .... and the morning long queues .... and the fees!!

[chronicpride]