Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Homer]

I was wondering what you guys think of online blacklists.

Are they fair and well run?

Do they really check a teachers claim before blacklisting a school?

What do you think?

[chronicpride]

I think whenever you only get a one-sided story from an anonymous teacher, and keeping in mind the credibility issues that they might have, in which the Freakiest Waygook thread can offer a small sampling of the potential existence of this, plus reports of fraudulent blacklists, plus the big, over-embellished scam that Denise the Piece did on EFL-Law last year, I think blacklisting in its past and current form is terribly unreliable.

I knew a guy who started up an ambition project (ESLscout.com) last year for accountable blacklisting and doing background checks on schools, but the site is down now and I don't know what's going on with it.

Doug, drop me a PM if you have an acct and ever read this, as I'd like to talk to you about something similar that I'm putting together.

[paperbag princess]

on the other hand, ignoring blacklists can mean that you will end up with an arogant, dishonest, racist boss who will take lots of money from you.

[Summer Wine]

It does help give a heads up to potential problems. I would rather hear about someone elses experiences then make them my own because I didn't know.

[Barking Mad Lord Snapcase]

[chronicpride]

I wouldn't even accept a blacklist request from a teacher, school, or recruiter, unless they were first willing to provide contact information for the party in dispute, and, if possible, other 3rd party witnesses, so one can try to ascertain a balanced perspective of the situation.

If the school, director, or teacher is being honest and forthcoming in their blacklist, then they should have no issue providing references for further testimony. The old website I was speaking of was charging a small fee for blacklisting to cover the costs of follow-up and investigation. Something obviously didn't work with the business model.

To do it right, would be to employ something similar to this, but not charge for it, and compensate the effort of investigating and researching the alleged offenders, internally, such as allocating some of the ad revenue from a site that has Korean job ads, and paying staff to do background and complaint follow-up. Then, put the blacklist on the site, including all of the unfiltered emails and results obtained in the follow-up research, and allow people to draw their own conclusions. The specific contact info could be made available to anyone interested via PM, in case one wanted to question the intent or integrity of the findings provided by the site.

Results of thorough research that clearly implicate illegal practices can also be shared with key contacts with the Labor Board and Ministry of Education. The trick would be doing that in such a low profile fashion as to not affect the ad revenue that is being used to fund the effort.

If executed properly, people would then be apt to question the validity of the blacklists that teachers/schools/recruiters put up on other sites, but for some reason have been reluctant to put their story to the test and scrutiny of the investigating site. I think that this would be a good step towards accountability and is certainly a lot better than the status quo.

[Teufelswacht]

On the other side of the coin are white or green lists. I've seen a ouple of these where they had posted good comments from "ahem"..... teachers. Of course we all know what would be the problem with white/green lists. "Hey, give me ____ and you'll get on a green list." I would think these would/are of less value than blacklists.

[Homer]

Interesting results so far.

I tend to agree that a blacklist, to have any credibility, has to be run professionally using high standards of verification.

That is, before a school is blacklisted, a teachers' claim should be examined and veryfied. That means the teacher should included full contact information for himself and the school and possibly a few withnesses.
The complaint should also be detailed and substantiated.

Otherwise, whats the value of a blacklist?

[sadsac]

They are subjective. See if there is any follow up by the site.

[Dispatched]

Why not just a 'hogwon directory', whereby teachers who have finished their contracts can post info about their position, basic questions like, "did you work Mon-Fri or Mon-Sat", "were you asked to teach illegally", "were you paid on time", "was the apartment fully furnished" plus similar type questions. Also with a space to add comments. People who had a good experience can post positively, people who had a bad experience can post negatively. The reader can make up their own mind. If it was widely accepted and used it could push dodgy directors into at least having to toe the line or risk not being able to attract anyone into the position.
Of course people who are satisfied with their jobs wont take the time to go to the website and fill in a positive report but those that are dissatisfied will. Biased results and hence it's fall down point.

If the teaching community could unite as one... we could change the teaching scene... hahahahaha yeah right.

[chronicpride]

That's not a bad idea, actually. Compile a list of qualifying questions that seem to represent the core of what the collective feels is the distinction between good and bad. It might be able to help expose a teacher who is being malicious or is just naturally high maintenance and grumpy to begin with. And, of course, be able to highlight schools that have a definite pattern of bad practices. But follow-up research would still need to be done to fact-check the teacher's claims, which in the end will likely just be 'he said-she said'.