Site Search:
 
Speak Korean Now!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Verbal Job Offer Not a Contract

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:24 pm    Post subject: Verbal Job Offer Not a Contract Reply with quote

Verbal Job Offer not a Contract, Court Rules
A verbal promise of employment without specifying position or salary is not a binding contract, the Incheon District Court has ruled. The court on Monday found in favor of a company identified only as N, which was accused by a 31-year-old woman of causing her to become unemployed by not keeping its promise of a job. The woman, identified by her last name Lim, trusted a verbal promise by N's CEO and quit her job before she received an official job offer from the company.
Chosun Ilbo (April 4, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200504/200504040033.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
temporos



Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Verbal Job Offer Not a Contract Reply with quote

Real Reality wrote:
A verbal promise of employment without specifying position or salary is not a binding contract, the Incheon District Court has ruled.

Yeah. Too bad my director doesn't care about court rulings. He was yelling at me yesterday about how I wasn't adhering to his assumptions about how I teach a class. Keep in mind that these were unspoken assumptions, let alone not written... I have a feeling that this is quite common in Korea.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nature of Contracts in Korea
Koreans see business less as a legally based interaction than a relationship. Consequently, there is a much weaker sense of law in Korean business relations than in international business.... Most Koreans do not view deviations from a contract as a "breach," and few Koreans would consider taking an employer to court over a contract dispute.

Instead, Koreans tend to view contracts as infinitely flexible and subject to further negotiation. Furthermore, the written contract is not the real contract; rather, the unwritten, oral agreement with an employer is the real contract. You should bear these factors in mind when you sign a contract.
Teaching English in Korea - Consular Affairs, Canadian Embassy
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/pubs/korea-en.asp#Contracts

CONTRACTS
Culturally, the written contract is not the real contract; the unwritten, oral agreement that one has with one's employer is the real contract.
Teaching English in Korea, A Guide Complied by American Citizen Services, U.S. Embassy, Seoul
http://seoul.usembassy.gov/wwwh3550.html#contracts

Employment
You should be aware that complaints are frequently received from British nationals teaching English.... There have also been complaints of breach of contract, confiscation of passports, and of payment being withheld. Check that all terms and conditions of employment are clearly stated before accepting an offer and signing a contract. However, written contracts are not necessarily considered binding documents and verbal agreements often take precedence.
British Embassy, Seoul Travel Advice
http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1093348575239
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
temporos



Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: Verbal Job Offer Not a Contract Reply with quote

Real Reality wrote:
A verbal promise of employment without specifying position or salary is not a binding contract...


Real Reality wrote:
Culturally, the written contract is not the real contract; the unwritten, oral agreement that one has with one's employer is the real contract.


Isn't that kind of contradictory? In one case, the oral agreement is meaningless and the written contract is binding. In the other case, the written one is bunk and the oral "agreement" is the valid, legally binding contract? You're making my situation look very grim, indeed, RR...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
guangho



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

to quote a number of law school classmates- an oral contract isn't worth the paper it was written on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:14 am    Post subject: Re: Verbal Job Offer Not a Contract Reply with quote

temporos wrote:
Real Reality wrote:
A verbal promise of employment without specifying position or salary is not a binding contract...


Real Reality wrote:
Culturally, the written contract is not the real contract; the unwritten, oral agreement that one has with one's employer is the real contract.


Isn't that kind of contradictory? In one case, the oral agreement is meaningless and the written contract is binding. In the other case, the written one is bunk and the oral "agreement" is the valid, legally binding contract? You're making my situation look very grim, indeed, RR...


Isn't that kind of contradictory?
You may be learning about Korea.

Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
Overall living conditions, including education, housing, medical care, transportation, immigration, and access to the Internet are pointed to as inconveniences. Not only inconveniences caused by different systems and customs in Korea, but also special discriminating practices, such as the practice of submitting two years of monthly rent in advance like a deposit, which is required of foreigners just because they are foreigners, are ubiquitous.
by Jae-Dong Yu and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (July 4, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schwa



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP has nothing to do with contract conditions. A job offer is not binding if its simply verbal. RR is a weasel poster.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
temporos



Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:26 am    Post subject: only in Korea? Reply with quote

I've heard from several reliable sources (ugh, now I sound like the US gov't.) that Japan is much more welcoming of westerners. Is this true, or will I experience the same level of vileness from an employer there?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
JacktheCat



Joined: 08 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: only in Korea? Reply with quote

temporos wrote:
I've heard from several reliable sources (ugh, now I sound like the US gov't.) that Japan is much more welcoming of westerners. Is this true, or will I experience the same level of vileness from an employer there?


I wouldn't say Japanese are "more welcoming of Westerners," (they're just as racist as the Koreans, but not as upfront and in your face about it) but they are much more rational and trustworthy employeers. They just expect more professionalism from you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wwidgirl



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:07 am    Post subject: contract law principles Reply with quote

Here's my situation:

I was offered a position verbally and I accepted verbally.
This COULD be considered a contract but is likely on shakey ground.

I was THEN offered a "formal offer" via email (their words) and I "formally accepted" via email. Within this email were the most essential terms of the contract including: salary, airfare, no housing required, duration contracted for, job requirements.

Without these essential terms, this would probably be considered an agreement to contract at a later date but with the essential terms, this is a binding contract.

Once there has been offer and acceptance, there is no longer a right to rescind.

So technically, I could sue for expectation damages (what I would have gotten had the contract been fulfilled) provided I mitigate damages (so if I could have found a job that pays the same but doesn't provide airfare then I would be entitled to recover the airfare). But I'm not going to because who wants to work where you're not wanted? And it's also a big fat hassle to pursue legal compensation.

So according to Canadian Law I would have a case. This is just me venting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
temporos



Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're correct. That could be considered a legally binding contract in Canada if and only if you kept that e-mail and did not modify it. You would need all the detailed headers of the message in-tact if you wanted to use it as legal evidence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
wwidgirl



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

temporos wrote:
You're correct. That could be considered a legally binding contract in Canada if and only if you kept that e-mail and did not modify it. You would need all the detailed headers of the message in-tact if you wanted to use it as legal evidence.


Yeah I printed off copies of all emails and I also saved them onto a disk.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cheonmunka



Joined: 04 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The written contract terms are what you'll get if there is a dispute and you take it to labor court. Any verbal stuff is wishy wash and any employer will renege.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
temporos



Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheonmunka wrote:
The written contract terms are what you'll get if there is a dispute and you take it to labor court.

I took my contract to the Labour Board, and they didn't seem to care what it said... I've learned that contracts in general, written or verbal, are basically meaningless if you're a foreigner.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International