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Blair hit by new leak
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:22 pm    Post subject: Blair hit by new leak Reply with quote

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-523-1592904-523,00.html


May 01, 2005

Blair hit by new leak of secret war plan
Michael Smith





A SECRET document from the heart of government reveals today that Tony Blair privately committed Britain to war with Iraq and then set out to lure Saddam Hussein into providing the legal justification.

The Downing Street minutes, headed ��Secret and strictly personal — UK eyes only��, detail one of the most important meetings ahead of the invasion.

It was chaired by the prime minister and attended by his inner circle. The document reveals Blair backed ��regime change�� by force from the outset, despite warnings from Lord Goldsmith, the attorney-general, that such action could be illegal.

The minutes, published by The Sunday Times today, begins with the warning: ��This record is extremely sensitive. No further copies should be made. The paper should be shown only to those with a genuine need to know.�� It records a meeting in July 2002, attended by military and intelligence chiefs, at which Blair discussed military options having already committed himself to supporting President George Bush��s plans for ousting Saddam.



So waddya think pilgrim? Are yuh still sure Saddam was an "imminent threat"? Laughing


I took special notice of this part:


The political strategy proved to be arguing Iraq��s weapons of mass destruction (WMD) posed such a threat that military action had to be taken. However, at the July meeting Jack Straw, the foreign secretary, said the case for war was ��thin�� as ��Saddam was not threatening his neighbours and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran��.


Confused

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=634702


A damning minute leaked to a Sunday newspaper reveals that in July 2002, a few weeks after meeting George Bush at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, Mr Blair summoned his closest aides for what amounted to a council of war. The minute reveals the head of British intelligence reported that President Bush had firmly made up his mind to invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam Hussein, adding that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy".

At the same time, a document obtained by this newspaper reveals the Foreign Office legal advice given to Mr Blair in March 2002, before he travelled to meet Mr Bush at his Texas ranch. It contains many of the reservations listed nearly a year later by the Attorney General in his confidential advice to the Prime Minister, which the Government was forced to publish last week, including the warning that the US government took a different view of international law from Britain or virtually any other country.

Shocked Shocked

I'm not surprised by this, it's just one more of those things that are eventually going to come out.

I wonder what will happen as more and more people realize that the "tin-foil-hat-crowd" was right all along. Confused
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saddam was a 'scapegoat.' He was someone the U.S. had to hit to make the Middle East governments fear harboring terrorists. Of course, very, very few are sad to see Saddam go. I think the U.S. (and apparently the U.K.) picked their 'scapegoat' well.

But all due respect to the 'tin-foil-hat-club' for being right on this. (Although, the more conspiracies one believes in, the greater the chance of being roughly correct about the existence of one or two of them)
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
But all due respect to the 'tin-foil-hat-club' for being right on this. (Although, the more conspiracies one believes in, the greater the chance of being roughly correct about the existence of one or two of them)

Look at the history of America and Europe and you will see conspiracies. What was the Oliver North / Iran-Contra fiasco but a conspiracy to lie to Congress and therefore subvert the process of democracy?

A lot also depends on how you define the word "conspiracy," as well.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasn't like Saddam was ever going to make nice anyway.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:
Look at the history of America and Europe and you will see conspiracies. What was the Oliver North / Iran-Contra fiasco but a conspiracy to lie to Congress and therefore subvert the process of democracy?

A lot also depends on how you define the word "conspiracy," as well.


The Iran-Contra fiasco is a good example of what I would define as a true conspiracy. I would say there are quite a few shady co-operative arrangements going on continually in that dark world of defense contracting. But I would put that more down on the 'old boy' system and the politics of greasing palms, I wouldn't call it exactly conspiratorial. It doesn't take that many people to come together in those cases, and the effect isn't as far-reaching (Not in any real sense 'Orwellian').

But I reject many of the theories of some kind of vast network of capitalist barons who work together to keep themselves in power.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>. Another leak eh ??? So what ???

Does anyone honestly thnk he's NOT getting another term ??? The Sun could publish pictures of him parading "just for kicks" around #10 Downing Street in drag with some of his more "esteemed" parlimentary colleagues & he'd still find himself at the helm.

Just as the case was with Bush, he's in there like sin people Rolling Eyes
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R. S. Refugee



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

igotthisguitar wrote:
>. Another leak eh ??? So what ???

Does anyone honestly thnk he's NOT getting another term ??? The Sun could publish pictures of him parading "just for kicks" around #10 Downing Street in drag with some of his more "esteemed" parlimentary colleagues & he'd still find himself at the helm. . . .


J. Edgar Hoover had a charmed life like that. Cross-dressing didn't hurt his career one bit and he got a big building named after him too.

Wonder what Blair will get named after him?

A national cemetry, perhaps?

A new Iraqi sewage treatment plant? Very Happy Laughing Wink
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R. S. Refugee wrote:
J. Edgar Hoover had a charmed life like that. Cross-dressing didn't hurt his career one bit and he got a big building named after him too.

Wonder what Blair will get named after him?

A national cemetry, perhaps?

A new Iraqi sewage treatment plant? Very Happy Laughing Wink


Actually i forgot to add "... while crawling on a leash behind a team of trained butt monkeys."

Interesting as well you should bring up Hoover. From what i'm hearing these days Bush's #1 "rough boy" henchman, co-conpirator & compadre Karl Rove could very well be Hoover come again.

Imagine that eh ... freaks in the White House.
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supernick



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blair has brought back the days of glory to the British. It was not so long ago that the British would have been more than proud about invading a country, as they were more than use to it. It's also not the first time that Britain has bombed Iraq and installed a puppet government; the only difference this time round is that the war was made on false pretenses. In the old days, the Brits would have just invaded for the simple reason of expanding its empire.

People can say what they want about conspiracy theories, but we all know how it severs the interests of the U.S. and the UK to have control over Iraqi oil, and from what I've seen so far, Iraq does not have control of its oil nor its revenue.

All in all, Blair has done a good job in other matters.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
People can say what they want about conspiracy theories, but we all know how it severs the interests of the U.S. and the UK to have control over Iraqi oil, and from what I've seen so far, Iraq does not have control of its oil nor its revenue.


if and when they do / did then would you change your opinon of the war?
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Alias



Joined: 24 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Blair is re-elected I have no doubt that certain neo-con pundits are going to claim this means that the British public supports the war.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alias wrote:
When Blair is re-elected I have no doubt that certain neo-con pundits are going to claim this means that the British public supports the war.


Your comment reminds of that other guy ( what's his name again ??? ) who said his re-"appointment" last year provided him with all the political kapital he needed, and we could expect he was going to spend it.
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alias wrote:
When Blair is re-elected I have no doubt that certain neo-con pundits are going to claim this means that the British public supports the war.


I was in UK for a few days last week and it seems that the Iraq issue ranks somewhere around 14 in voter concerns, somewhere a bit behind EU fishing quotas.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wangja wrote:
Alias wrote:
When Blair is re-elected I have no doubt that certain neo-con pundits are going to claim this means that the British public supports the war.


I was in UK for a few days last week and it seems that the Iraq issue ranks somewhere around 14 in voter concerns, somewhere a bit behind EU fishing quotas.

Labour lost over 60 parlimentary seats didn't they ???

Interestingly, ( and i'd say this speaks volumes on the system of British parlimentary "democracy" ), while Labour only picked up 36% of the popular vote, they STILL managed to form a MAJORITY government Confused

Every vote really counts does it ???
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tzechuk



Joined: 20 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wangja wrote:
Alias wrote:
When Blair is re-elected I have no doubt that certain neo-con pundits are going to claim this means that the British public supports the war.


I was in UK for a few days last week and it seems that the Iraq issue ranks somewhere around 14 in voter concerns, somewhere a bit behind EU fishing quotas.


Damn! You were in the UK and you didn't tell me?! ( :cry)

Razz
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