Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Whistleblower]

Just found this in The Korea Times. What are your opinions? Is this a step in the right direction? Do you think that Koreans are "racially blind"? Will the new and current Korean Government introduce more foreign friendly visas no matter their nationality?

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/01/116_17625.html

[Suwoner10]

BS

Most all the countries here in Asia want natives of the 5 native speaking countries. It may not be a visa issue with lots of countries here, but rather a free-market issue. I.e, a person from the Phillipenes may be able to technically get a visa, but Asians want Westerners, preferrably white. Even poor Asian countries want whities--Malaysia and Thailand come to mind. So if a poor SE Asian country can find a way to get whitey, it will be a LOOOOOOOOOONG time coming before an afluent Asian country like Korea goes the Phillipine rout.

[lowpo]

[TheBulimicFatGuy]

I would say that Koreans are the exact opposite of racially blind. They are hyper-sensitive to the issue of one's "breeding". That being said, I can't help but feel that countries like Pakistan and India are just bit**ing because they can't get in on the "lucrative" cash-cow of teaching ESL. Seriously, does anyone think that that someone who has learned English as a second language can be as equally qualified to teach English as someone who speaks it as their native language? Or be as versed in the modern usage of idioms and slang? I've got to side with the Koreans on this one, using non-native speakers to teach English makes about as much sense as blaming native English speakers of bad teaching ability when the only real requirement for an E-2 visa is simply having a university degree in any major.

If *quality* ESL teachers are truly wanted in S. Korea, then they should recruit under two conditions:

1. The teachers are native English speakers.
2. The teachers are qualified teachers.

The second condition is right out the window although I would be willing to argue that the teachers that stick around for more than their first year generally acquire a reasonable level of competence. Anyway, the first condition is being met so far. If Korea opens the door to start hiring non-native English teachers as a result of economic pressures, I think they can kiss the concept good-bye of globalization through English learning. Unless, they want to think "Englishy" is the same as "English"...

[hari seldon]

English isn't the primary language of discourse in countries like India or the Philippines. Call Centers in these countries, staffed by the top 1% of their university-educated English speakers, still find it necessary to hire native english speakers to coach their cream of the crop employees in telephone etiquette, accent, colloquial language, etc.

Although these 3rd World teachers would probably represent an upgrade over many Korean English teachers, they won't equal native speakers in their ability to teach and model conversational English, no matter how skilled they are with grammar or written English.

It seems to me that if the Korean educational authorities decide to hire 3rd World English teachers then the only way they'll be able maintain or upgrade English educational standards in Korea is by making them direct replacements for Korean English teachers!

[kingplaya4]

If they want to do this, you won't see me crying about it, but I doubt it will work, and I don't think they'd be a good substitute for Korean teachers either. Its important for someone to be teaching them that understands their native language. I'll be honest I know I waste a lot of time in class miming or otherwise trying to explain words which could be more easily just translated if I knew the word.

If I was in the Korean government the idea I would float would be to pay the tuition of say 20,000 Koreans to go to an American university. To be accepted into the program, they would have to pass a basic level of speaking and written competency (and some other vetting procedures to make sure they were quality people). It would cost a lot of money with tuition costs the way they are today, but I think it would be worth it. No more need to import foreigners of any kind, and honestly I think the students would learn better for a couple of reasons: these teachers would be able to explain grammer better being that they would be fluent in both languages, vocabulary could be taught much more efficiently, and the behavior of the students would be better for a native teacher. The teachers would likely be more professional as well if the applicants were properly vetted.

Bringing a bunch of Indians in might be temporarily cheaper, but hardly a long term solution. And if they keep the current system, it will be ages until enough Korean teachers are nearly fluent for Korea to be self-sufficient in English.

[chadrory]

I've always been under the impression that Korean parents want their Korean children to be taught by white, west coast sounding English speakers. Don't they pay more money for that type of teacher/class? My cousin sends her adopted Russian boy to a private Russian school in NYC. He is learning Russian from Russians. Nuff said.

[atomic42]

[big_fella1]

I am reading all this as Native English Speakers don't make waves and demand more money despite your scarcity or we will go to other countries for teachers and you will be out of work. Why is a teachers board being used for Hagwon propaganda?

If I stay in Korea it will be for 5 mil a month full time 40 hours a week or a lot of holidays and little hours for 2.5mil. Otherwise Australia beckons where I will make more which will be paid on time, get 4 weeks vacation a year plus 8 days sickies, pay more tax, and the weather doesn't suck unless you live in Melbourne.

Seriously though Korea's English Hagwon market is changing and there is no future for the turn up and play games with kids style Hagwons. Curriculum development is the future of the industry. Gameplayers including myself had better be updating the resume.

[cdninkorea]

Korean people may not be ready to accept English teachers from non-Western countries. Non-Western teachers may not be good teachers. But Immigration shouldn't be in the business of regulating a private market. Better to loosen up restrictions on who can legally teach and let the students (or customers) decide who they want.

Personally, I'm not afraid of a little competition.

[Draz]

[Troll_Bait]

Non-native speakers can be great teachers. If they're qualified (e.g. Master's in TESL), enthusiastic, creative, and have good English skills, why not? The problem is: Will they be hired? Most Koreans are, to be blunt, so ignorant that they are reluctant to hire visible minorities (non-whites) from English-speaking countries. Even if they were born and raised in Canada, America, etc., if a person is not white, they'll be asked by Koreans: "Are you really a native speaker?"

[hari seldon]

[TheChickenLover]

I have zero fear of 3rd world teachers coming to this country. We all know the true value of a Korean degree is more or less worthless outside the country. In most cases, the value of "degrees" from developing countries are not valued in the west. Why? Because we know the standards for handing out degrees in places such as Pakistan or Kenya are far too low to meet western standards. This results in these degrees only being respected in their perspective countries or in countries that are poorer or not as developed as the degree holders.

A developed western education is respected worldwide because we have TRUE standards for graduation (in most cases, dimploma mills not included). The education is real, we work our asses for it & there is an appreciation and recognition for our degrees. Hence, our education is recognized as true & valued the world over.

In Korea, you can not show up to class & get a B. Claim you're a 4th year student & MUST be passed in many universities. The true value of a university graduate in Korea is extremely suspect that you need to give them extensive tests to make sure they can do what their degree claims they have learned. Businesses have said that they can't trust the degree, only their tests to find suitable applicants.

Now these 3rd world countries want a slice of the ESL pie in Korea for money. Let them come. However, I can barely believe that a person from India (a country that can't even deal with wild monkey's in the cities) and a rather low quality of education will be able to field the respect that a western university graduate would command. Often Koreans tell me they have a degree & I just smile. I know they may not have really worked for it. I definately don't respect a Korean degree at all. Koreans that graduated from the states are VERY proud of their education & it shows. If they can graduate form a western university, then I'm impressed & respect the accomplishment.

Korea is still a developing country. We're from the most powerful countries in the world & are part of the priviledged minority. We are a status symbol of what Koreans desperately want to be respected(always trying to show the world stats that Korea is #1 at something). Yet they always seem to fail through copying, their corrupt education practices or make a world class ass of themselves from their "Pride of Korea" cloning guru. They want to be respected, & noone really pays much attention to them other than a cheaper place to manufacture goods from.

The lower classes of the 3rd world have no chance & are no threat to us.

Chicken

[wylies99]

If there's anyone in India or Pakistan who can do this job well, then I'd like to meet them.