Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Adventurer]

I have heard some say in the teaching profession that there should be minimal verbal correction when teaching speaking and others say it actually gets the students to reproduce the language correctly. How important is it for them to speak rather well? I only focus on grammar to some extent. I just point out to some of their errors when speaking, because I think it's necessary. My main focus, though, when speaking is having them abandon their crutches. The students seem to want to do too much reading. That may be fine for an intermediate speaking class.

Once you know how to speak somewhat you shouldn't be reading word for word from a paper while presenting in class. Some of the advanced kids were doing thus, so I told them to put everything they wrote away.

Most of them did a decent job. Some reacted negatively to the idea of having to talk about what they wrote. I gave them some time to look what they wrote over, and if they really put the time at home to do the work, and knew the subject they researched well, then they would have done well. One girl got upset that I expected her to know pretty much what she wrote. I told the class before that it's not a reading class. The writing portion is a homework grade, the speaking part is a test grade.

I would be interested in reading ideas you may have. How do you deal with students who simply want to do so much reading when it is not a reading class and copying what they typed verbatim pretty much on to their note cards.

[Captain Marlow]

we have speaking tests at my school... i tell them that if they've memorized their presentation then they will get a perfect score no matter if they have a few grammatical/pronunciation mistakes...

simply reading from an index card will get them a low score...

glancing at notes, but still keeping eye contact with the class and me will earn them a decent score...

the best scores, however, are usually the students who didn't prepare beforehand at all and get up in front of the class and just talk about the topic for 5 minutes... i know that they didn't prepare, but their ability to \actually just speak (i.e. drawing upon their knowledge of the subject, their vocab, and their ability to just bs the rest) about the topic for that long is admirable...

we also have an impromptu question at the end of their speaking test which weighs heavily... if they just "uh uh uh" through it, then there are a few points taken away... most students answer with confidence...

[Arthur Dent]

I would propose the following:


The first, most important, goal when practicing speaking with your students is to make them feel comfortable.

The second would be to establish some confidence building exercises. Basic role playing exercises with scripts, usually work well.

Once these goals are accomplished to their - and your - satisfaction, you can begin to train them away from bad habits in both grammar and pronunciation when free-speaking.

Many say that one should correct mispronunciation immediately. I agree, with the caveat that it be done in a manner that allows the student to retain a sense of dignity.

One way to do this is to simply compliment the student on their speech and then repeat it yourself verbatim, asking the students to listen closely. This gives them a good (hopefully!) example to follow, as well as a chance to listen for their mistakes. Speak slowly, and do a simple phonics exercise, when you identify common mistakes, to reinforce the proper pronunciation.

With reference to the use of notes when speaking, this should be done only when a formal speech is given. It does build confidence. However, there is a time to throw away the notepad and simply speak - however brokenly - about a topic the best they can.

This is where a teacher's role as a judge of ability/level/confidence becomes more important. All students must learn to crawl before they can walk. If they feel comfortable in talking to you and the rest of the class - even with fault-ridden grammar - it will give them incentive to improve their language because they will have tasted some success.

Also, one should encourage students to mimic the English-speakers they hear, as it will help them to tune their ears to the language as well as (with the proper model) improve their spoken grammar.

You can have fun with this as well. Choose several public figures - or actors - and ask your students to practice mimicking them. If possible, bring video clips, or at least audio recordings, to class and practice them together. Once your students have had some practice, you can ask them to change what the chosen examples are saying, then have them guess at which student is "playing" which person.

Voice intonation and emphasis are important here.

You could then have groups of two or more students come up with a script in which separate characters are having a conversation. Encourage them to make it funny, or strange and help them with vocabulary when necessary.

This can distract them from being nervous or self-conscious - the basic advantage of role-playing.

It is also an opportunity to offer them synonyms, if possible, to expand both their speaking abilities as well as reading comprehension. Give proper and improper examples.

I hope this is of some use. Good Luck.

[rusty1983]

From my experience theyd prefer to be corrected everytime. I think it is hard for them to just model themselves on you as an English speaker. You have to point out the mistakes theyre making or they wont improve.
When you get to more advanced levels they especially want you to correct every mistake.

I was using a method recently that dictates you repeat their mistake by directly immitating them and then speak the correct version. Very uncomfortable to use at first but effective, and once the students get comfortable with it and realise it is helping theyre fine. The theory behind repeating their mistake and then correcting is it makes it clear to the student what they have said wrong. Although the difference may be crystal clear to you, they may have no idea why you are correcting them if you just say the phrase as it should be.

There could be an argument for just kicking the crutches out. I find I learn more when Im thrown in the deep end. As long as you treat everyone equally then you arent being a dragon. Also, you can do this and remain friendly and have fun classes

I sometimes find it hard to actually bring myself to correct their mistakes and in Korea I thought I was just there as someone to practice talking to. In a few weeks I got to understand the weird Konglish stylings and would just converse with them in it and not correct it much. Most of those kids would get nowhere talking to someone with no background in teaching or experience of Korean English.

And I think it is common cos many adults use very very dodgy English too, they pronounce lots wrong and many must have had some experience of a native speaker. Some Koreans Ive taught in England cant pronounce basic things correctly and theyve been educated up to the hilt.


It is embarassing for them now they finally have the chance to try it in a country of English speakers and it is the number one thing they want to improve.

If you consider one of our main roles to be correcting pronunciation then you need to be correcting this as much as possible.

[EzeWong]

I only correct them if I can't understand.

The whole point of language is communciation, If the communication isn't lost, then why should I risk endangering their confidence level?

Well, that's my philosophy anyways, I'm trying to keep a good balance between the two. But it's different per child. Some of them have samson like confidence with their long flowing hair, and others are crushed by toothpicks.

I pick my battles.

[Juregen]

Motivation and confidence are the two most important attributes to make people talk.

Constant correction reduces these.

I tend not to correct minor mistakes and let people discover the mistakes themselves.

[D.D.]

The trick to teaching speaking is to actually have a format where they get a chance to speak.

Taking them out of the room in small groups will allow them to have the confidence to speak.
If they are corrected in a small group it's no big deal.

Correcting them in front of the class is a big deal. They also don't like to talk in front of the wholes class.

I give them all 20 minutes to prepare a topic and then I take the 3 at a time for a mini speaking test.

With this method I have noticed the kids improving very fast.

[jkelly80]

Fluency over accuracy, especially in Korea, where accuracy is a national pathology.

[poet13]

I correct depending on the level of the student. For some of the very lowest level (and shyest) students, just making a sound that sounds english is enough for praise. For mid level students, I might correct if the word they say sounds like another english word. Like the kid who said he was "shitting" in his seat. I thought he should try to say "sitting". For the higher level students, I might correct enunciation, pronunciation and suggest better wrods to use.

Whatever corrections I make, I try not to impede the pace of the class.

[Easter Clark]

OP--Are you referring to teaching public speaking or communicating? I'm a bit confused...

If you're doing speeches, then I'd recommend spending a day or two on each step of the process:

*Make an outline

*Groups critique each others outlines

*Go over language used for the introduction

*Practice introductions in groups and critique

*Go over language used for the body (transitions or signposting)

*Make notecards based on their outline

*Practice the body of the speech in groups and critique

*During this time you can check each student's notecards and correct them as you see fit.

*Go over language used for the conclusion

*Practice the conclusion in their groups and critique

*Practice the speech in their groups and critique the day before they have to give their speech to the class

I would also tell the class that everyone must ask a certain amount of questions about each speaker's topic. They can write their questions down as the speaker is talking. Make this part of their grade. Depending on class size, you could require each student to ask every speaker a question, or make a minimum of, say, three or four questions. This ensures that people are listening.

[Adventurer]

We weren't quite dealing with speeches. We were dealing with presentatins. I didn't really focus so much on their grammar. I corrected them and had some start over again if they were reading, when they aren't supposed to be doing that. Some of them didn't like that, but I had told them before hand that it's a speaking class, not a reading one, and they should be prepared, and I modeled it for them. On the third try, most of them are doing a lot better.

It is debatable whether you should correct students a lot or not. I think it's good to have students who are confident, but so many Koreans speak horribly, and part of the problem is because Westerners don't correct them in so many cases, because we've recently gotten this notion that's improper to do so. I am not really focused on these particular students' grammar, because I have no time to focus on it much. I just want them to speak, not read. I am succeeding somewhat, but I am not sure why the kids hesitated to do so? Are they not used to doing that in Korean schools?

Anyway, my focus is on getting the students to speak in front of the class whether they are debating or giving a presentation without simply reading from some script. I will admit, I didn't have a ton of time to invest in coaching them, because our academy has given us too many classes this term. I am going to go easier on the students and give them a break, no matter what the syllabus says. I just want some decent speech production, for the student to speak without reading something they took off wikipedia and barely changed. That's just not appropriate for a speaking class and not for a writing one, either.

[aka Dave]

I generally allow them to finish what they're saying, then go back over global errors that are chronic. Emphasize the fact that the entire class is making similar errors (when in fact usually they are), and globally correct them, and then have them repeat their corrections.

The errors they make are repeated over years and years of studying English, so they do need to be addressed (I teach mainly seniors studying for the English teacher examination, so these guys have been studying English a long time).

For those who say fluency over accuracy, I agree philosophically, but practically most Koreans are going to be dealing with a test some time in the future, whether it's for a corporation, a univ., or a teacher test.

[rusty1983]

I think you have to remember that the way Koreans speak English is very much not like real English. I think one problem is you get used to how they speak it, your ear is trained.

You can understand alot of what they say, but as I said when they get to England, for example, and go to the pub they get laughed at for mispronouncing everything.

These are people who have been studying English for 15/20 years. Imagine your Korean co-teachers in your hometown. Would they stand out a mile because of their pronunciation? They probably know more about grammar than you, but they sound a bit ridiculous.That is what you are in Korea for. That is why they pay so much and why they will take anyone.

In England teaching there were complaints made about us teachers saying the students were not happy about our correction and we needed to do it much more. Again, these are people who must have had more than a few years of a native speaker helping them with their speaking. That they even need so much correction on basic things after so many years is not good.

I do understand most of you teach children so it is trickier. I think a short course in child psychology would be about 3000 times more useful in that job than a TEFL course.

Having said that, I dont believe correction destroys confidence. You are a teacher, that is what teachers do!
English is archaic, and it is easy to be understood in it, anyone who has studied it for any length of time can throw together some words and be understood. It is not like other languages.
What I believe teachers in Korea should be doing more is working on the accuracy of pronunciation.

What is the point in them being fluent in a form of English you can only understand if you live in Korea? Where is that going to get them exactly?

If you arent correcting them you are endorsing wrong usage of English which forms habits which are hard to break.

[Adventurer]

I don't believe correcting destroys confidence. Look at how education is worse in some ways in North America. People in the 1950s if they dropped out of 9th grade sounded better than seniors who graduated in 2001. Yes, it does hurt the feelings of the students somewhat if you correct them in the beginning. It does hurt their egos somewhat, and you should watch how you handle it. However, if you correct them and do it in a light-hearted manner it helps them, actually, improve. They get used to being corrected. They stay in your class after all. They get used to it psychologically. Initially, they will definitely not like it, but so many Koreans sound horrible, partially, because their teachers are not really correcting enough of their errors, because we somehow have the notion that it's a bad idea.

Last term, I corrected my students a lot when I used to have students give speeches. However, I did in a light-hearted manner, I had ample time to get things done, there was no rush, I was not overloaded with classes. Unfortunately, and I feel bad about this, I cut some of my current students off, because many of them were reading rather than speaking when I clearly told them not to do that, and I would skip students doing that telling them I would come back to them. One girl even cried when I did that, but, I will tell you what, that girl who cried later got a very high grade the next time around. I will, however, go easier on the students and spend more time training them.

Generally, I am going to focus less on the quality of their work and on them following instructions and trying to speak, because you have to manage giving students corrections when the environment is very good for that. I spent a whole class today and yesterday focusing on training them, showing them their expectations, trying to see how they as Korean children see things, approaching things as a Korean learner may approach it. Of course, it is easier to do that when management gives you a reasonable workload. I do not have that.

[rusty1983]

If you are worried about their confidence you can even say "This is what I am going to be doing. I am doing it because it will help you get much better at English. I am not doing it to make fun of you." Tell your boss to tell them the same thing.
Then you dont even need to correct them in a light-hearted manner, just get on with it. If they then get offended it is their problem not yours.

The idea that they will get brilliant at English simply by being around a native speaker is a myth, you actually have to teach them.