Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Hanson]

I was just reading this thread: http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=21941&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30,
and I thought I'd start a new one. My questions are several.

First, are distance education Masters universally recognized in Korea, and will they continue to be (solid info, not opinions, please)? The above thread does mention that Taiwan and UAE don't recognize distant education degrees. Will Korea follow suit? I'm thinking they won't because universities here often have trouble finding people with any MA. But that's just my guess.

Second, what is the reputation of USQ (Univ of South Queensland)? I've heard conflicting reviews from people who are currently following a distance program there, and other people who aren't (of course, who would say the univ where they are taking courses sucks?). I've heard everything from, "it's challenging and rewarding and accredited", to "it's a degree mill." How would other Univ's in Australia compare? McQuarie, Sydney, others?

Finally, does anyone have any recommendations for distance MA's in Applied Linguistics/TESOL? I want to do a Masters, but I'm only starting to check things out. I would hate to do a Master's and find out my piece of paper is worthless. I've heard good things from a few places in England, but they seem quite a bit pricier.

Thanks in advance!
Cheers,

Hanson

[Hanson]

Thanks for the 'pm' Canukteacher!

Excellent info, I'll be looking into the NE program.

Anyone else? The more info I can get from people in the know, the better.

Thanks!

Hanson

[turtlepi1]

I'll weigh in on one side someone else will come in and say I am wrong and then you will be exactly where you are now. And I know how you feel because it is pretty much where I was a year ago.

First: Taiwan. I haven't looked at it a bunch but my understanding is they had a severe problem with fake degrees and put a stop on Internet degrees as part of the "crackdown". I don't think they made a "value" judgment on the degrees more so that there were too many to verify. (I'm sure there is plenty of info around on Taiwan, but if it a place you are keen on going at least for the time-being an on-line degree "apparently" would be a waste of your cash)

Secondly: The UAE. I call bullshit/gossip and third hand knowledge on this one. (sort of) There are some places in the UAE that "may" not accept online degrees (I have heard that rumour) but let me tell you what I know about the UAE. HCT, MLI and ZU (all government affiliated organizations) not only accept on-line degrees but STRONGLY support staff to pursue them.

On-line degrees will only gain more standing as time goes on. All you need do is look to reputable, traditional schools. Nearly all of them offer some sort of online/distance based program. I'm currently doing a masters of educational technology from the University of British Columbia. A reputable school in Canada and really one of the "birth places" of on-line learning. (Tony Bates)

On another note, (and a much sader reality) ask employers. The masters degree in a lot of cases is one of the "check boxes" that needs to be filled in. As sad as it is to say, many could give a rats ass how you did it. Assuming they can confirm you have a degree, you have relavant teaching experience and will fit into their particular teaching environment then you will fit the bill.

Showing life-long learning should be a requirement for any candidate for a higher learning institution. Be that a masters, graduate diploma, DELTA, professional development courses, research/writing, etc.

At a masters level those who tell you that you are making a mistake aren't really doing you a service. As for the Australian degrees, it's a bit of both. They are considered a bit of a diploma mill. The average person may make off the cuff comments about your degree. But if you care that deeply about the pedagree of your degree (beyond enhancing employability and knowledge gained) then maybe you should look elsewhere. Having said that the reason these programs are considered by some to be diploma mills doesn't really speak to the quality of the degree, but more to the number of people they can successfully put through the degree. But wait...isn't that the point of on-line degrees. To open up education to those in circumstances that traditional programs aren't particularly accessable to?

Get your degree. Stop worrying...
(unless there is something very specific you want to DO with the degree. If that is the case it is pointless to ask us. The person you should be asking should be the person with decision rights to the thing you want to do. IE: Phd program. If I take a degree from xxx school can I get in your Phd program...

Hope this helps...

[turtlepi1]

[TECO]

Hanson,

First, with all the time off you get as a university teacher, it would be within your best interest to hop on a plane and do as much of your degree on-campus as you can. Asians, in general are quite leery of distance/on-line study. This form of study is not in their culture. Also, fraud in Asia, as you know, is about as common as a fake LV hand bag.

Taiwan does not recognize degrees obtained through distance study.
The MOE requires 8 months of on-campus study for an M.A. and 16 months of on-campus study for a Ph.D .

In general, even in Korea, local professors would hire someone with an American M.A. degree obtained in-residence over someone with an on-line/distance degree obtained in Australia or the U.K. .

Asians don't like these degrees - period.

And if you want to lay down $15,000 - $20,000 for a degree that is going to be discriminated against, fill your boots - but I would caution against it.

Second, as for M.A. TESOL/Applied Linguistics programs, Macquarie is one of the best and USQ one of the worst. I've read reports that UNE is problem program because it doesn't offer enough courses from semester to semester and, thus, takes longer to finish the degree. In fact, one teacher who is studying at UNE is taking courses at Macquarie which will then be credited to his UNE degree because UNE is not currently offering the courses he needs - a problem, right.

Do you have a CELTA? - If you don't and you decide to do a CELTA before your M.A., some schools in Australia will recognize your CELTA and give you credit for Methodology and Introduction to Linguistics or a similar course. Something to consider if you decide on doing a CELTA anyways - do it before your M.A., get credit for it and save some money and time.

In sum, you do what you can. If you're young still, not married - no kids and get nice breaks between semesters, I suggest you do as much of the degree on campus as you can in order to avoid not having your degree recognized by some employers/governments.

[SuperHero]

Will write more later after I have some coffee, but for now I suggest you take a look at this article from ESL mag. Reading this 3 years ago was very helpful to me.

[Zark]

I was told quite clearly by my employer in Saudi Arabia that distance education would be disqualified. Period.

I believe in life-long education and one (of many) of my certifications is/was via distance. My employer disqualified it - no discussion, no ifs ands or buts.

As noted on other threads - one way to avoid this trap is to take a distance program that REQUIRES a short residential component. A few weeks a year is not uncommon.

All the employer wants to know is that it was YOU who did the work. If it is all distance - how do they know?

[canukteacher]

The UNE degree is not a problem degree. I was able to finish it in 2 years. In fact, since I finished the program they have added more courses.

Also, they have now been accredited by a large distance education body in the U.S. (sorry can't remember the name of it). What it means though is that the degree is recognized in the States, and Americans in the program can apply for financial aid in the U.S. (I'm not American, so I don't know how that works)

CT

[Hanson]

Sorry, CT. I just edited my previous post to give credit where it's actually due...

Great replies so far! I've just had a bit of a discussion with several teachers in my office, with many of them doing a Masters as we speak. We ended up 5 or 6 of us just standing around talking about MA's for about a half hour. Lots to consider!

Thanks for the link, SuperHero. I've had a quick look, but I'll read it more carefully tonight.

turtlepi1, TECO, Zark, thanks for the input!

On a side note, y'know how many people complain about posters on Dave's putting other posters down? It's nice to see a nice discussion like this one not turning personal, and sharing some good info. Keep it comin'!

[susmin]

How will they know if it is through distance learning or on site? I have almost completed my M.Ed through a University in the states, that has a real campus. It offers many classes on site and online. My transcript and diploma will not look any different.

[Hanson]

That may be true, but how will you account for the time it took you to do the degree on your resume? I'm guessing that you won't write any work experience into the time you spent doing your MEd on your resume/CV?

[TECO]

Hanson,

The Ministry of Education and the school that hired me asked me to give them copies of my passport pages to show that I had in fact entered Australia and that I was NOT living in Taiwan during my study.

As well, I had to photocopy my Student Visa to show that I had in fact studied in Australia.

Finally, in the interviews I had at universities, members of the hiring committee were very clear with me that they did not accept degrees done by distance study. I was asked if I had done my M.A. degree through distance study at the very beginning so that they could stop the hiring process with me if I had done any distance study.

Be really careful with distance degrees.

Also, if you claim work experience in Korea and use work references from Korea at the same time that you claim to have been studying "on-campus" you will get caught lying.

I don't think it's too difficult to tell if someone did their degree through distance study even if the transcripts and degree don't indicate that the degree was obtained by distance study.

How are you going to explain why there are no stamps in your passport that should be there - even if I was an Australian citizen and didn't need a Student Visa, I would still have to prove that I had actually gone to Australia - that would be impossible wouldn't it if I had never left the country.

So, I'd caution people about trying to b.s. people at the interview stage. It'll all come out in the end.

Do as much of your degree on campus as you can.

I'm not an interviewer but I still think I could easily spot someone who has claimed to have studied on-campus when in fact they actually did their degree through distance.

[Hanson]

My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to do a Masters in person, what with my wife and I expecting our first child in August. As a co-worker told me, distance education has become a necessary evil. I would much rather do an MA on campus, but the reality for many people seeking post-graduate education like myself, the only viable option is distance education.

I'm now trying to figure out the best program for me, as well as plan my next move after I do complete the MA. Taiwan seems, at the moment, like it is not doable, but that may change. Distance education (at least post-graduate work) is becoming more accepted as it becomes more affluent and respected. It's the wave of the future.

You're info is appreciated, though, TECO.