Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Keepongoing]

In your university setting are you teachng students or trying to please customers?

In Hagwons I think most would say that they are pleasing customers, if I am wrong please correct me.

[Intrepid]

Voted both but they're two groups--the customers are the non-achievers, those to whom, regardless of their poor performance, lack of interest, non-attendance, etc., it is necessary to pass with a "C," if I'm being mean, or a "B" if I'm being only moderately nice.
This leaves the "student" group, those who come to class, participate, etc., little room to distinguish themselves in their group. Usually it's an "A" for moderate to good performance, and an "A+" for good to great.
My Uni told me not to fail anyone, not to give anyone a "D," even. They suggested I have students re-write plagiarized papers, or just give a "C" for plagiarism, no matter how blatant, because "A 'C' is a very bad mark on a student's record."

That, and giving students a "B" because they'd found a job, and therefore couldn't attend my class or do anything to earn credit for said class (too busy, they have jobs), has made me fairly disillusioned with Uni teaching in Korea.

But there are good students, of course, and one teaches to them.

[Hanson]

Didn't vote, but here's my take. A lot of the teachers in Unis that I've worked with seem bound by the teacher evaluations. For management, it's the "be-all-and-end-all" of how a teacher performs. Therefore, the teaching gets skewed to receive good evaluations, which pretty much makes it a 'please the customer' type of situation.

I have the same instructions from my superiors as Intrepid; God forbid I'd fail a student (gasp!). The only way I can fail a student is if they are an "attendance failure", otherwise, it's a 'C' at worst.

Side note: a guy who used to teach where I work (the guy I replaced, actually) got canned for bad evals from his students. He apparently was a pretty darned good teacher, but he worked his students too hard and gave them homework (another gasp!). After 2 semesters of less than glowing evals, they fired him (or should I say 'didn't renew his contract'). What does that say about the quality of education at the uni level in Korea?

[the_beaver]

[desultude]

I said both, because the reality is that there are too many universities for the declining number of students. Furthermore, as the number of students in a university declines, so does the enrollment in each department. Budgets and programs get trimmed, cut or consolidated. Departments fall into competition with each other to attract enrollment in majors. Its just reality.

So, as someone said, the good students will always want to learn, but the trick is to keep the mediocre ones enrolled in your department.

I am more concerned about the grading from a different perspective- I have to grade on a curve, with an absolute maximum number of possible A's and B's, and C's. I have good students in my department who will be getting lower grades than they deserve because the English majors migrate over to my department's composition and conversation classes because the students in their department are better. Rather than compete with the other English majors, they take our courses and get the few available A's. This seems patently unfair, but there is nothing we can do about it.

I have seen people not renewed at my university for a combination of bad evaluations and other reasons. I have seen forbearance exercised when an otherwise good teacher gets bad evaluations. I have also seen teachers who are real problems, but good evaluations, not get renewed. I have not seen anyone so far who has not been renewed who has not deserved it. Yet. Now, of course, if I am not renewed, I am sure that I will be outraged and scream unfair. I'm only human, after all.

[Derrek]

Not enough students for too many Universities.

I've heard that one before, and am lost trying to understand why Korea went and made several local colleges (Like Kyungwon near here) into Universities a few years ago.

Anyone understand why?

[desultude]

Declining birth rates. Changing demographics. It's simple- there are less children today than twenty years ago. Seems pretty clear to me.

[Derrek]

But I was told these changes took place less than 4 years ago... not 20.

[hari seldon]

[quote="the_beaver"]

[the_beaver]

[desultude]

[Hanson]

[sid]

We have fairly generous limits of:

20-40% A
20-50% B
10-60% C,D,F

so it's not too difficult to give everyone more or less what they deserve.

[ajuma]

When teaching at a uni, I think that you have to remember that most of the students you teach will NEVER use English again after they finish your class. I understand this and do my best to give them some basic "tools" that they can use if they ever have to use it, but I don't stress about the poor kids who have NO interest or talent. If they come to class, as a rule, they pass!

[Derrek]