Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Cthulhu]

France rejects it because they are still living in a 1960's welfare state dreamworld, England will reject it because England doesn't trust Europe (don't blame them) and the Dutch are set to reject it because of--surprise--immigration and security issues along with economic issues. Wots up with the EU? Will can Germany save the day? Probably not. This makes the growing America/Europe divide just a bit more interesting.

France rejects the EU just as England is about the take the presidency of the EU. Coincidence?

[Ya-ta Boy]

If for no other reason, Europe should reject it because the darn thing is 800 pages long. Imagine if it were adopted. You'd need a small pick up truck to bring copies of it into classrooms.

Europe cannot become a viable alternative to the US until it gets itself together. Maybe Brazil can fill the role.

[bigverne]

[funplanet]

Ya-Ta is right on about the size of the damned thing...a constitution should be a contract between the governed and the government...the EU contract is nothing more than a book of regulations meant to "regulate" every damn aspect of a person's life....from the size of condoms to the hours a store can be open...it is not a true constitution...

[bigverne]

And now the Dutch have rejected it emphatically. Looks like it's dead.

[shakuhachi]

[bigverne]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/osullivan/cst-edt-osul31.html

An interesting article on how these decisive 'no' votes could affect Turkey's chances of joining the EU. Perhaps the main reason for these rejections of the constitution is that EU enlargement has continued apace, with little or no public debate.

[The Bobster]

From The New Republic Online :

"Far from a statement about Chirac's foreign policies, the main message delivered by voters on Sunday was about the economy. And it was certainly not, as many Americans would have liked, that the French are fed up with excessive regulation, protectionism, and high taxes. Rather, the French no camp seemed to be saying it wanted more protection and regulation, not less. True, Chirac tried to defend the constitution by claiming that it would protect the French from "ultra-liberal Anglo-Saxon" economics. But voters did not believe him, and they wanted an EU constitution that made their preferences explicit. Does anybody really think that free-market reform and the defense of globalization will now become priorities of the French government?"

[bigverne]

Which shows the absurdity of trying to create a political union out of nations with wildly differing priorities. The French and others want a more social Europe, while the UK and many of the new entrants want a more competitive, deregulated economy. It is impossible to see how these differences can be reconciled.

[brento1138]

Some random thoughts on the EU...

When I was travelling through Europe in 2003, most of the Europeans I talked to mourned the coming of the EU, but grudgingly admitted it was neccessary to prevent wars and further their economies. Most said the EU helped big business, but not the common person... so I could see protests arising in the near future... in Germany, the EU currency practically doubled the prices of consumer goods, while companies were not forced to increase the wages of the common man. Interesting huh. So imagine, instead of paying 1 dollar for a coke, now, you pay 2 dollars, and your wage is still the same.

The Germans I talked to (young 20-somethings) hated the idea of the EU, since it was never democratically decided... this was in East Berlin, where unemployment is 25%. In Germany, I think it's something like 20%.

Given the opportunity to vote now for a constitution, maybe some people feel they're getting revenge on their governments for this. A lot of Europeans don't like the idea. Hungarians don't like it, and were happy that the Prime Minister said they'd stall implementing the Euro currency...

The homogenization of Europe is not a popular idea there, but one that's grudgingly accepted as a 'we have to do this or else' type thing. But deep down, nobody actually wants it...

[bucheon bum]

Interesting how no one on this board is speaking in favor of the constitution.

[Ya-ta Boy]

[Wangja]

[bigverne]

[Ya-ta Boy]

European union has been a dream since the days of the Romans. For the first time in 15 centuries the chance has come for it to happen peacefully rather than by marching armies.

It's facinating to watch the pull of the dream on one side and the pull of localism, tradition and the past on the other side. It reminds me of what it must have been like in the US of the 1780's before our Constitution.

The choice for Europe really is between an inspiring new political union or a future as a bunch of cute little theme park countries.