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American English VS British English
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sheba



Joined: 16 May 2005
Location: Here there and everywhere!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:43 pm    Post subject: American English VS British English Reply with quote

Ok, so this may sound like a really dumb question, but in American English, is it ok to start a sentence with and, but, because and so?

eg. I like apples. And I like oranges. Becasue they are sweet. But I don't like bananas. So I don't eat them.

Practically all the students write like this, and I thought it was incorrect regardless. However, the reason I ask is because our hagwon teaches American English, and our text books have this type of text also!

After having a discussion about it with the Korean teachers, I decided to come here and find out once and for all... Im from NZ so I use British English back home and this is definately a big no-no.


Last edited by sheba on Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: American Anglish VS British English Reply with quote

sheba wrote:
Ok, so this may sound like a really dumb question, but in American English, is it ok to start a sentence with and, but, because and so?

eg. I like apples. And I like oranges. Becasue they are sweet. But I don't like bananas. So I don't eat them.

Practically all the students write like this, and I thought it was incorrect regardless. However, the reason I ask is because our hagwon teaches American English, and our text books have this type of text also!

After having a discussion about it with the Korean teachers, I decided to come here and find out once and for all... Im from NZ so I use British English back home and this is definately a big no-no.


In American English one can start a sentence with a conjunction (e.g. and, but, so) but not a preposition (e.g. with, from) unless it's part of a prepositional phrase. Many Americans would still consider it bad style, especially starting a sentence with 'because'. For EFL purposes I wouldn't worry about it unless you're teaching advanced composition.
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Pyongshin Sangja



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I like apples. And I like oranges. Becasue they are sweet. But I don't like bananas. So I don't eat them.


These are sentence fragments and should be joined with a conjunction. It is not acceptable to begin sentences with conjunctions, but it happens. It shouldn't be taught to beginners, though.
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pyongshin Sangja wrote:
Quote:
I like apples. And I like oranges. Becasue they are sweet. But I don't like bananas. So I don't eat them.


These are sentence fragments and should be joined with a conjunction. It is not acceptable to begin sentences with conjunctions, but it happens. It shouldn't be taught to beginners, though.


'They are sweet' and 'I don't like them' are full phrases; it's a matter of style whether they could be preceeded by a conjunction in a complete sentence. For EFL beginners who aren't expecting one day to go to an English university, I'd say it's a hell of an improvement over responses like 'is sweet' and 'I no eat'.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
eg. I like apples. And I like oranges. Becasue they are sweet. But I don't like bananas. So I don't eat them.



From the looks of the example, I would say this is a beginner who is ready for some lessons:

a) in distinguishing between sentences and phrases, and
b) in making compound and complex sentences.

I agree that in formal writing, sentences should not start with 'and' and 'but'. But in casual speaking and writing, I don't see a problem. Smile However, with beginners, I think we should always require complete sentences. Always. It's the only way they'll ever learn to make them.
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sheba



Joined: 16 May 2005
Location: Here there and everywhere!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your replies...

For clarification, this was my example (a student didn't write it). But in ever writing exercise, they write like that. It is an easy way to teach beginners short sentences that can changed to long sentences I guess...

I teach elementary and middle school. I figured that if it is not standard American emglish then I would start teaching the higher elementary classes and the middle school classes.

So, I know it is commos use with speaking, but with teaching writing is it ok? Is it common American Eglish? Or is it only for very informal writing?

Cheers!
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babtangee



Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Location: OMG! Charlie has me surrounded!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Informal. You've never read an American essay/text book? No one's going to right like that in a formal text.

I would try not to teach it to my students. But I wouldn't worry about it too much; as long as they are using sentences, it's all good.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using and, but, so, and other conjunctions at the beginning of a sentence has nothing to do with American English, and everything to do with a literal translation from Korean. It's very common for a sentence in Korean to begin with a word that translates into a conjunction in English. Just explain the rule to them.

I swear, when I edit stuff that's been translated by people who supposedly speak English and Korean and every other sentence starts with "But," I start to go loony.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are writing style books available, man. Try, for example, The Elements of Style.

Your answers depend on the context (business writing, legal writing, scholarly writing, literature, poetry)...
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cubanlord



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I teach American English (as I am American). I wrap a kids knuckles if they start a sentence with a conjunction (in my beginning writing classes). If they start a sentence with a conjunction (in a dependent clause, followed up with an independent clause), I give them an English dollar.

Depends on the level you are teaching. Just make sure you explain to them that this is only used in informal writing. Use a conjunction incorrectly in a research paper, formal essay, etc. and be prepared for your professor to wreak havoc with a red pen.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubanlord wrote:
Depends on the level you are teaching. Just make sure you explain to them that this is only used in informal writing. Use a conjunction incorrectly in a research paper, formal essay, etc. and be prepared for your professor to wreak havoc with a red pen.


My master's thesis on foreign affairs, which my chair is pushing that I publish, contains many sentences that begin with "and" and "but" -- some of them being sentences she herself wrote.

Most books that I've read and many, many historical documents coming out of the White House and several govt agencies start sentences with "and," "but," and "or."

The kinds of rigid rules you cite only really exist in high school and freshman writing classes. Once you start writing professionally, there really aren't so many rules like this. But I will defer to The Elements of Style on these points if someone is looking for a final answer.

In any case, English is a "living language." And it's constantly changing and adapting. Some are "proscriptive" grammarians (cite the rules from the book), while others are "descriptive" grammarians (allow for common usage). I like the freedom the latter offers.
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubanlord wrote:
I wrap a kids knuckles if they start a sentence with a conjunction (in my beginning writing classes).


Shocked

I hope you're proud of using corporal punishment on beginner students for making grammar mistakes.

What a great way to instill love of the language. Confused


Last edited by Son Deureo! on Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cubanlord



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's true. Once you get to a certain point, as long as your don't make a terrible grammatical mistake, no one will say anything to you. But.....we are talking about beginners......non-native english speaking students (too many adjectives? lol Laughing ). I would say stick with the easy peezies first. Don't inundate (sp?) them with technicals. Get them writing first.
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keithinkorea



Joined: 17 Mar 2004

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubanlord wrote:
I teach American English (as I am American). I wrap a kids knuckles if they start a sentence with a conjunction (in my beginning writing classes). If they start a sentence with a conjunction (in a dependent clause, followed up with an independent clause), I give them an English dollar.

Depends on the level you are teaching. Just make sure you explain to them that this is only used in informal writing. Use a conjunction incorrectly in a research paper, formal essay, etc. and be prepared for your professor to wreak havoc with a red pen.


FYI. No such thing as an English Dollar, they're called pounds in England
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cubanlord



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOPS....I didn't mean an "English" dollar....lol.....I give them an AMERICAN dollar (fake of course).

Thanks for the correction. Laughing
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