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saw6436
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon, ROK
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 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: Pay issue at Public Middle School. Whats your opinion? |
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Hi. I'm posting this just to get some other opinions about a small issue that has come-up at the Public Elementary School I am teaching at. I currently work full-time at a Hakwon in the afternoons and evenings. In the mornings I teach 16 hours a week at a Elementary School. (All this is legal and registered with immigration). My contract calls for 15 hours a week teaching for W1,800,000 per month. Any hours over 15 are paid at W30,000 per hour. This month is my first full payday from the school.
This morning my co-teacher informed me that, according to the school's Vice-principal, since I am an hourly employees national holidays are not paid holidays. (My contract does not state whether I am a full-time or part-time employee only that I am the lead teacher with a co-teacher to assist me). I am to be paid for school events that cause my classes to be cancelled (sports day, field trips, etc). To say the least I was a little suprised to be informed that the school considers me as an "hourly employee". Especially as my contract states that I am the lead teacher.
To be honest I really do not have a problem with not being paid for national holidays if, in fact, I am an hourly employee. What does bother me is that as "an hourly" employee I am still expected to attend a 3 day 2 night school camp (un-paid) plus act as an Judge at a speech contest this Thursday (my schedule will be: teach class from 9:40-12:10, contest from 1pm-6pm, Hakwon 6pm till 9:30pm- no breaks [except transport time], no lunch no dinner).
Here is my opinion. If I truely am an hourly employee then I expect full pay for all school related functions and activities. If I spend 3 days at school camp then the school must pay me for my time (72hours x 30,000/hr). Ditto for speach contest. Ditto for other events. If I am not considered an hourly employee then holidays are paid and I do the other events gratis as per my contract. Personally the idea of school camp and speech contest are about as appealing as a root-canal. So, if the school chooses to treat me as "hourly" I will happily not attend either - unless they pay.
What do you guys think? Am I being unrealistic, a hard-case, selfish. What would you do? I should note I have a F-2 visa so quitting is not an issue. I can do what I want. But I really do like teaching at this school. Kids are great, my co-teacher rocks, staff and other teachers are friendly and helpful. I hope to continue teaching there for a good long while.
My co-teacher said she agreed with me but that she doubted the school would see it my way (I agree). What I am looking for is balance and fairness. Right now the situation is that where it is advantageous for the school I am an hourly employee. And where it is advantageous for the school I am a salaried employee (anyone who has worked on salary can tell you you spend alot of your "free-time" working for the man). At no point is the much advantage for me except this job pushes me to the over 4,000,000 a month mark (which is very sweet).
I am interested I hearing from others especially if you have a similar experience. I'm hoping someone smarter than me can present some alternative actions or ideas.
Thanks for your time. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Seems to me that your mind is in the right place.
treat me like a part timer and you'll get a part timer... to an extent. Always make sure your performace is top-notch though  |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| You're worth more to them than they are to you. Every public school teacher should keep that in mind. Of course if your principal is really a bastard you could easily drive each other off a cliff. |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd enforce common hogwan hours. You have lots of details but 30 hours = 2 mil plus housing or else. Outside of that, you are in a neverland. If its too good, you have to wait for the foot to come down. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| My contract calls for 15 hours a week teaching for W1,800,000 per month. Any hours over 15 are paid at W30,000 per hour. This month is my first full payday from the school. |
Tell your co-teacher the vice principal is mistaken. You are not an hourly employee you are a contracted salaried employee. As a salaried employee you are get paid for holidays.
| Quote: |
| What does bother me is that as "an hourly" employee I am still expected to attend a 3 day 2 night school camp (un-paid) plus act as an Judge at a speech contest this Thursday (my schedule will be: teach class from 9:40-12:10, contest from 1pm-6pm, Hakwon 6pm till 9:30pm- no breaks [except transport time], no lunch no dinner). |
I tell them regardless either way that the 5 hour contest is overtime no if ands or buts! Work is work.
You are not being a hardcase...they are trying to take full advantage of you. Any work outside of contracted hours per week are overtime...it does not matter if you are overseeing a fieldtrip or a contest.
That 1.8 they pay you is for 15 hours a week....thats it. Dont feel guilty or preassured because they want to squeeze you. |
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inkoreaforgood
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Location: Inchon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| Grotto wrote: |
| Quote: |
| My contract calls for 15 hours a week teaching for W1,800,000 per month. Any hours over 15 are paid at W30,000 per hour. This month is my first full payday from the school. |
Tell your co-teacher the vice principal is mistaken. You are not an hourly employee you are a contracted salaried employee. As a salaried employee you are get paid for holidays.
| Quote: |
| What does bother me is that as "an hourly" employee I am still expected to attend a 3 day 2 night school camp (un-paid) plus act as an Judge at a speech contest this Thursday (my schedule will be: teach class from 9:40-12:10, contest from 1pm-6pm, Hakwon 6pm till 9:30pm- no breaks [except transport time], no lunch no dinner). |
I tell them regardless either way that the 5 hour contest is overtime no if ands or buts! Work is work.
You are not being a hardcase...they are trying to take full advantage of you. Any work outside of contracted hours per week are overtime...it does not matter if you are overseeing a fieldtrip or a contest.
That 1.8 they pay you is for 15 hours a week....thats it. Dont feel guilty or preassured because they want to squeeze you. |
I agree with this. There is a contract, clearly stating a salary/hours worked. Kindly explain to them that this is the correct interpretation of the contract, and any other way of looking at the contract will result in breach.
Good luck. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:16 am Post subject: |
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But I really do like teaching at this school. Kids are great, my co-teacher rocks, staff and other teachers are friendly and helpful. I hope to continue teaching there for a good long while.
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Those things listed in the quote are pretty valuable. Few teachers can say that many good things about their gig.
The school camp thing is about group harmony. Most likely you will be playing games and singing songs. You will be supervising kids and that is exhausting. Probably all teachers will be going. I would consider it like lunch room duty or playground supervision--one of those unpleasant but normal things that come with the job. The same with the speech contest thing.
IMO the wage/salary thing is a red herring. Teaching is really a salary type job. No one but extremely greedy hakwon teachers demand payment for lesson preparation time.
Thursday is going to be a bear. How about asking to let your co-teacher take your classes that morning and you come late? If the principal sees your schedule for the day, it's very likely he/she will try to be accomodating. I haven't met a Korean yet who expects anyone to miss meals.
Aren't all contracts interpreted to the benefit of the employer? I think that's the reality for peons everywhere.
Good luck. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:15 am Post subject: |
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yataboy wrote
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| No one but extremely greedy hakwon teachers demand payment for lesson preparation time. |
Yes  why expect to be paid for the work you are doing  When you get squeezed for every second of classroom time that can be forced out of your body why on earth would you expect to be paid for the extra hour a day it takes you to do a halfway decent job
Ahhh I remember now I was a greedy hogwan teacher who didnt feel like donating 5 hours plus a week to the GREEDY EFFING HOGWAN OWNER 
No one in their right mind works for nothing |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| Grotto wrote: |
| Quote: |
| My contract calls for 15 hours a week teaching for W1,800,000 per month. Any hours over 15 are paid at W30,000 per hour. This month is my first full payday from the school. |
Tell your co-teacher the vice principal is mistaken. You are not an hourly employee you are a contracted salaried employee. As a salaried employee you are get paid for holidays. |
Yeah, I agree with the dwarf in this case. You have a contract, and your contract states monthy pay - not hourly. This is clearly a SALARIED position. The 15 hours thing is a maximum, it doesn't mean you are paid by the hour. |
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pegpig
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Teaching is really a salary type job. No one but extremely greedy hakwon teachers demand payment for lesson preparation time. |
Make up your mind. If it's a salary-type position then why should the op not get paid for a public holiday. The op wasn't complaining about prep time.
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| If the principal sees your schedule for the day, it's very likely he/she will try to be accomodating. I haven't met a Korean yet who expects anyone to miss meals. |
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa Yeah. This one sounds fair.
I agree totally with the op. The boss can't have it both ways, but he'll definitely try. |
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saw6436
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:28 am Post subject: Thanks and Up-date |
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I just wanted to say thank-you to all who weighed in with their opinions. I do appreciate your insights. Thanks again.
Talked to the school Vice-Principal today. In fact he (and the school) do consider me an hourly-employee regardless of the wording or intent of the contract. I stated my opinion as I described here and asked for his feedback. He accused me of only being interested in money and not the good of the school. To which I replied that essentially I am an English Language mercenary, and yes the only reason I was teaching at this school was for the money. The perks (great co-teacher, good students, etc) made the job enjoyable and made me work to do my best. But the bottom line is MONEY. I then asked him if he would do his job for free. To which he replied "of course not".
To shorten a long story. ALL work I do un-related to actual classroom teaching will be paid at my normal hourly rate. So, I will be paid for any speech contests or school camps.
All in all I am pretty happy. My VP and I understand each-other and we both have a better idea of our expectations. It really helped that my co-teacher acted as my advocate. I owe her big-time.
Thanks again to all. I do appreciate your feedback. And incidentally I called my old Hakwon director and asked his advice, he echoed all of your opinions here. My point is that there are some pretty decent directors out there and not every school is aiming to screw you over. |
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