Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bpocock]

ag

[Bunnymonster]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAH

No really

HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Welcome to the monkey show........

[just because]

Welcome to the board...

To be honest your post screams that you are obviously not quite aware what you are getting yourself into...this is a good and bad thing...

It doesn't matter if you have a doctorate, masters,etc.. in most cases in ESL in Korea(or in Asia for that matter) as compared to a normal 4 year degree you may get 100 000 won more a month if you are lucky but most places just want a body to fill so the level of degree isn't important

[Pyongshin Sangja]

You guys are being a bit harsh.

My uni pays 2.066 mill for BA's, 2.3 for MA's and 2.6 for PHD's, no severance or housing.

Our salaries are quite low for schools in Seoul, however. I think some unis in Seoul are hiring BA's for 2.3 now. Whatever, I ain't complaining.

However, if your graduate degree is in an area that sets you apart from the grammar/General English Department drones (International Relations, Business Admin., Economics, off the top of my head) you will see ads looking for people to lecture fewer hours (9 as opposed to 12-15 per week) for pay in the W36,000-60,000 per annum range. Admin. jobs in Korean unis come along for qualified people every once in a while, too.

[Real Reality]

"... [foreign professors] do most of the heavy lifting in terms of course loads, devoting themselves almost exclusively to teaching. Nevertheless, they tend to be treated as hired hands, without academic standing, and lacking the possibility of career advancement or tenure. They must submit to yearly contracts (compensated at a rate only 60 percent of their Korean peers) while walled off from the permanent Korean faculty who benefit from travel, research funding, sabbaticals, etc. Moreover, when hundreds of Korean scholars enjoy such perks at American and other foreign universities, something is obviously amiss.... According to the Samsung Group's chairman, Lee Kun-hee, to succeed globally, Korea must forgo the thought that Korea and being Korean is superior, and foreign specialists must be treated with respect."
Foreign scholars merit equal status: The foreign professor -- colleague or hired hand?
by John B. Kotch, JoongAng Ilbo (June 14, 2002)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html

"In the case of a national or a public University, a foreigner is not permitted to be a full-time professor."
Visa Issuance procedure: E-1 Status (Professors)
[Republic of Korea] Ministry of Justice, Immigration Bureau
http://www.moj.go.kr/HP/ENG/eng_03/eng_306030.jsp

Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
by Jae-Dong Yu and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (July 4, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448

[bpocock]

asdg

[justagirl]

Well, at least take some deodorant and a gift for your new boss from the States.

[desultude]

Sorry, your op does come off as excessively naive about things here. That makes you instant bait for some of the regulars here. But the responses are accurate- the differential between pay based on degrees is nominal.

Its the part about traveling Europe and teaching that I am curious about. Where are you from? For some reason I have gotten the impression that it is the U.S. Not all native English speakers have equal access to teaching in the U.S. Most, really almost all, jobs require a passport from an E.U. country to be able to work there. I had the same interest at one time, but was too slow off the mark, and all of the barriers have arisen which make that possibility slim indeed.

(Okay, I just noticed that you are Canadian. I think you are not eligible to work easily in the E.U., from what my Canadian friends have told me.)

[just because]

[fusionbarnone]

First of all, congratulations on your pending graduation. You have a winning attitude; with the confidence of youth, along with becoming informed, the hallmark of a professional. I'm sure your international travel will pan out well.

ESL teaching(check the intl job boards) is an in-demand vocation both perfect for touring the world or for funding a "large" part of it via saving. The saving part of it can be achieved quite well in Korea. Many have begun their OEs from the ROK. It's relatively safe(physically) too, so logically to make your time in Korea enjoyable, make sure to cover your income-producing-base well, first.

Not all boss' are first-rate a-h@#$s so I think the "numbers" game can be in your favor provided, you prepare well.

Regarding pay scales as recognized remuneration for qualifications, will depend on the contract(you eventually sign obviously) therefore do immerse yourself in pay scales, expecting only the most acceptable you can imagine with the best conditions possible. If you look at some ads and what they are asking for, becomes laughable when you become of standard conditions.

Visit the EFL-law forum(register if you hav'nt already done so) and look at a few examples of what constitute either good or bad contracts. The questions asked are typical of what befall some contract signees thus, in one day you'll have a fair idea about potential hazards/issues/solutions. These will include vacation time; public vacation time; Saturdays; overtime; ticket reimbursement; Tax rate; pension deduction(later refund if possible); accommodation(included or not); settlement deals(if any)actual location of where you work(not getting farmed out without immigration "knowledge"); bank accounts(not joint but wholly and privately yours) Letters of Release stuff (in case you may need to bail, shouldn't be neccesary); Legal Representatives(EFL Law, Labor Board, etc); and your rights if the s@#t hits the proverbial fan "who ya gonna call?"etc.

I don't think it's a bad idea to expect only the best conditions, either. If employers can be bold in demanding conditions from you, you shouldn't feel any guilt in demanding a few of your own. Working contracts here(I'm not intending to sound negative, that boss'even; under a govt. contract again due to supervisor/boss et al creativeness MAY get somewhat "interpretive" during any point of one's employ) is to get the best "agreed upon clauses"; keep an eye open during your contract for possible deviations(again read about some of the "classic" boss-to-teacher-ploys); and insure that "you'll GET all that's comin to ya", at the end.

Interestingly enough, I've noticed even here in China(same in ROK) locals/employers go into overtime into "helping you" lighten your load(new rates, imaginative new expenses, etc shiftier than ENRON) when they sense an impending departure. Must be an asian thing, who knows?

It's not a bad idea to peruse the Korean Jobs Board looking at Govt. sponsored deals(EPIK, GEPIK, English villages), Look at what unis are offering( the range of conditions may surprise you will help you become better informed); Review Hogwans/recruiters(get an informed opinion on this one);as bastions of "private" enterprise is where the majority of bad press reside. Many recruit through recruiters in order to mask their bad reps(therefore ask loads of questions).

Hogwans are getting a real run for the English teacher money now with the govt. raising it's funding to public schools. That's why you should review the K-ESL job market as representing three competitive factions with some employers that offer sounder(without inventive deviations) conditions. This new pressure of raised immigration requirements will mean ROK has to compete with other countries for "qualified" teachers(hopefully this will mean accountable professional oversight over the industry and not lip service).

I have no doubt that if you network well with the ESL community, someone could put in a good word for you. I've seen a few first degree holders score enviable uni positions this way; creme de la creme "Camp deals", etc. You can too.

Dave's ESL is not the only board for ESL positions. ESL teachersboard is equally good. There are other Job boards and do check them all. The reason for doing this is that jobs come up frequently, sometimes looking at Dave's(excellent by the way) one could come to the conclusion that hiring times are few and far between. Get savvy with your job market.

As for a Tesol cert. consider it as an investment in how to actually get started(reasonably and professionally). You may start in Korea as an English teacher and you will have an edge over other back-packers in future if you have verifiable, professional skills. A friend of mine has visited over a hundred countries this way so learning your craft well will be your edge.

Many places state 100 hours; perhaps you can do a cheapy but goody via online study(i.e; ICAL, etc review posters comments on other courses) and in addition, perhaps, inquire about "voluntary" work in a school/uni near you for a "reference" and "verification" toward qualifying hours. Just a thought.

A Berlitz phrase book(any language) can give you the key for vocab/sentences for basic lesson plans.

A couple of good ESL games books won't go amiss either and are affordable and again, posters can give you their preferences.

101 games for esl; and any others that can help you "reinforce" your lesson are a must have for a stress free teaching experience.

Best of luck.