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Hwang and Giving Credit Where Due

 
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:12 am    Post subject: Hwang and Giving Credit Where Due Reply with quote

There's an article in the Korea Times today titled, "Hwang Over-shares Credit." http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200508/kt2005080420430510440.htm

It is a sad example of ethnocentrism. I don't recall ever hearing a scientist state that another scientist had been given too much credit for work within a study, particularly when they do not appear to be involved in the resaerch themselves! There have been disagreements over the years where different persons and/or groups fought over who had acheived something first, but never anything like this I can recall. And any credit for a paper is usually an in-house issue, not as public one.

The design of a study/experiment is the single most important factor. If a study/experiment is well-designed all it requires is properly trained technicians to conduct it. That a scientist of any level would not recognize this and equate scientific achievement with lab work is mindboggling.

Then the reporter editorializes equally ineptly stating that the description of the lab work supports the idea of unearned credit.

While I have never seen this sort of ethnocentric commentary from a Korean scientist before, it is typical of media in Korea - and elsewhere - that reporting is no longer reporting, but editorializing as well. This is so common now it doesn't surprise me anymore. It's a daily occurance on any news broadcast from the US, for example.

I am very glad that Hwang is doing his research and is obviously not bound by ethnocentric values. I believe the complainant, a Mr. Park, is an abberation. But how unfortunate.

Where are we headed when the news is no longer reporting, but editorializing, no longer free and no longer even attempting objectivity? And how important is it that there be international cooperation in science? Two steps forward and three back seems to be the new paradigm.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
has a shot at giving Korea the honor of the Nobel Prize in May.


I've never done a statistical analysis of the age when the break-through is made and when the Nobel is awarded, but my impression is that there is usually a long gap between the two events. Do I have a wrong impression?

I'm not usually bothered by 'home town boy makes good in the big city' kind of articles. I think they're understandable. But this kind of thing got to me: ``All experiments were performed in Korea by Korean scientists and all results were obtained in Korea using Korean equipment and Korean sponsorship,���� the paper noted.

I worked with scientists in a science research institute for four years. One thing I noticed when it came to writing papers and giving credit, was the thirst for attention. People that don't do any work can get their name on the list if they have seniority of some type. For example, a grad student who comes to my lab and works for a year, then goes elsewhere to work may well call me up to discuss problems with the work. In that case, I get my name on his paper if I insist.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to keep people fully informed. The following is from aniwitok (?) 's post of May 23:

Quote:
When asked by a BBC reporter (live via 'phone) why he thought the Koreans were such leaders in this area he replied there are three points:
1. We Koreans have a culture of hard work
2. We have a culture of education
2. We use chopsticks

The reporter, obviously confused, said something along the lines of 'Excuse me, what do you mean? How could chopsticks help in stem cell research?'

Dr. Hwang described Korean chopsticks, how they are made of metal and difficult to use which leads to increased manual dexterity. Then asked 'You know about dexterity don't you?'

So I'm guessing that he believes it. Many do.
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Just to keep people fully informed. The following is from aniwitok (?) 's post of May 23:

Quote:
When asked by a BBC reporter (live via 'phone) why he thought the Koreans were such leaders in this area he replied there are three points:
1. We Koreans have a culture of hard work
2. We have a culture of education
2. We use chopsticks

The reporter, obviously confused, said something along the lines of 'Excuse me, what do you mean? How could chopsticks help in stem cell research?'

Dr. Hwang described Korean chopsticks, how they are made of metal and difficult to use which leads to increased manual dexterity. Then asked 'You know about dexterity don't you?'

So I'm guessing that he believes it. Many do.


OK, but Hwang wasn't the one not wanting to give credit, it was another scientist not on the study, so far as the article seems to indicate.

Frankly, where it comes to physiological skills, practice makes perfect. My observations of Korean students would support this idea: they have an unusually high per capita artistic ability and fine motor dexterity compared to myself and my schoolmates in the US of A. Is it the chopsticks or all the years at the hogwons, or both?? Don't know. But it is absolutely there. At least with regard to anecdotal observations. So no prob there.

What bothered me was that a Korean scientist was upset that someone who seems, according to Dr. Hwang, to have been important to the overall design, and therefore success, of the project wasn't worthy because he hadn't done any lab work and was not Korean....


Last edited by EFLtrainer on Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's just hope our next U.S. president has enough pride and scientific curiosity not to hold back the U.S. in this area while the next generation of Chinese and Koreans laugh in our faces. Idiot.
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