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Which language do you prefer?
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Which language do you prefer?
Language one - Ido
21%
 21%  [ 3 ]
Language two - Lingua Franca Nova
78%
 78%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 14

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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Which language do you prefer? Reply with quote

I have two artificial languages that I like and support by writing content on their wikis and translating stuff here and there. I'm curious what the average person thinks of the two though, so I'll give a simple introduction to the two here. And no, "they both suck" isn't an option because I'm only looking at comparing the two to each other in a void; in other words you have a gun to your head and have to pick one.

I should also mention that there are hundreds of possible candidates for a good auxiliary language, but that these are the only two I've considered worthy of support. The goal of any IAL of course is to serve as a bridge between at least two people that don't speak each others language, in the same was that English is often used today. They don't have any delusions of being able to replace English, but that's no reason not to make an effort. I myself know a number of people that I've only talked to in these languages, and their English isn't all that good, nor do I know any Finnish / Polish etc. so those are the only languages we use when communicating.

Now that that's established, let's begin.

Language number one: Ido

Language one goes by the name of Ido. The language comes from the term Esperantido, which means 'child of Esperanto' as it's a reformed version of the language. Back in 1907 the language was created by people who thought that Esperanto had too many flaws to be a world language or even a serious contender, and since the Esperanto community didn't want to reform they had to change the name. At present Ido has a community of about 1500 speakers (yes, I've carried on a conversation only in Ido for two hours before so it works just fine), a Wikipedia with over 13,000 articles, a Wiktionary with over 53,000 entries, a number of journals, places to use it, and a gathering every year in Europe to practice the language, which will be in Berlin this year. Ido often looks like French, Italian or Spanish to anyone that doesn't know those languages, and it has a large propaedeutic value in that way (ie it helps one learn those languages due to being closely related).

Now here's what it looks like (this paragraph is on prostitution in China):

Quote:
Quik pos obtenar povo ye 1949, la Komunista Partiso di Chinia komencis kampanii qui pretentande removis prostitucado de la kontinento finante ye la frua 1960a yari. Depos la laxigo di la guvernerio pri societo dum la frua 1980a yari, prostitucado en Chinia ne nur ri-aparis, ma nun trovesas tra omna urbala e rurala loki. Malgre la esforci di la guvernerio, prostitucado developis tante multe ke ol nun esas sua propra industrio, kun granda nombro di personi e facante granda ekonomiala produktado. Prostitucado divenabas anke asociita kun numbroza problemi, inkluzante krimino organizita, guverneriala koruptado, e sexuale transmisita morbi.


Advantages include the relatively large speaker community (second only to Esperanto), grammatical regularity, no use of diacritics, etc. The community was down to a few dozen a few decades ago, but since 2003 or so it has increased to its present level and seems to be growing at maybe 20% or so a year. A disadvantage to some is its perceived artificiality - all nouns end with o, all plurals with i, all present tense verbs with -as, and so on without a single exception. This IMO is a benefit but since I'm curious about the first impression a person has of the language, for all I know it could be a detriment. My blog is also in this language:
http://idolinguo.wordpress.com/

Language number two: Lingua Franca Nova

This language is much newer, and has only recently become stable. It began sometime in the 1980s by a professor who was influenced by the language Lingua Franca, which was used somewhere in the Mediterranean or somewhere else (western Africa I think) and eventually became a kind of pidgin contact language between traders, and existed for a few centuries. This Lingua Franca Nova is based on five romance languages (French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Catalan) and a creole-like grammar, which means that instead of using endings to indicate verb tenses for example you use a prefix, he/she/it are all simplified to a single 'el', and vocabulary in daily use is kept to as small a level as possible (in medical and scientific terms though, it usually just follows Latin but writtin phoenetically). That means that it looks quite a bit like the five languages but grammatically is more like a creole you might find on Haiti or Mauritius, and once again it's pronounced as written and has no diacritics. The speaker community right now is only a bit above twenty, although in the IAL (International Auxiliary Language) community there's quite a bit of interest for it being the only creole-inspired European-based IAL, and also because it's not based on any of the former projects that all started out as reforms of Esperanto. Oh, and it can also be written in Cyrillic. They have a wiki right now with a few hundred articles:
http://lfn.esef.net
and some things here and there like this translation of a Dutch comic book (some pictures not safe for work):
http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_01a.htm

Here's what the language looks like:

Quote:
Indo-Europan es la plu grande familia de linguas en la mundo, con 150 linguas e sirca tre mil milion parlores. Linguas inclui Hindi e Urdu (400 milion), Bangla (200 milion), Espaniol (300 milion), Portuges (200 milion), Franses (100 milion), Deutx (100 milion), Rusce (300 milion), e Engles (400 milion). Engles es la plu poplal lingua du e es parlada par sirca un mil milion popla en la mundo.

La loca orijinal ia es la area entre la rios Danubio e Volga. Entre 3000 e 2000 aec, la lingua proto-indo-europan ia estende a Europa e Anatolia a la ueste, a Persia e India a la sude, e a Xina ueste a la este. Miles anios plu tarde, en la eda de colonialisme, linguas como Espaniol, Portuges, Franses, Engles, e Rusce estende a la Americas, Australia, la isolas de la mar Pasifica, partes de Africa, e a Sibir.




Now that that's over, let's vote - it doesn't matter what the reasons are for the preference. Maybe you prefer one because of the large user base, maybe the other because of the name, maybe one just looks better than the other, anything. I'm curious what the average person's first impression is, so the answers need not even be based on logic.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, and let's move this to off-topic please. Embarassed
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Demophobe



Joined: 17 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on mith. Rolling Eyes

You really expect people to have a preference between to obscure, fictional languages that they probably don't know, and probably don't care at all about seeing as they are effectively useless?

It's great you enjoy languages and learn new ones like a child (that's a compliment!), but I think this post is just gloating.

To answer your question:

I prefer English. Wink

Edit: This was intended to be an extension of a laugh I had with mith a while back. It was incredibly unsuccessful.


Last edited by Demophobe on Sun May 28, 2006 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demophobe wrote:
Come on mith. Rolling Eyes

You really expect people to have a preference between to obscure, fictional languages that they probably don't know, and probably don't care at all about seeing as they are effectively useless?

It's great you enjoy languages and learn new ones like a child (that's a compliment!), but I think this post is just gloating.

To answer your question:

I prefer English. Wink


(erased knee-jerk response I wrote when I first woke up)
Edit: totally missed the joke! Sorry. Embarassed


Last edited by mithridates on Sun May 28, 2006 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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inkoreaforgood



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Location: Inchon

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited: Sorry for my semi-knee jerk response as well.



Mith, I have no preference in either language. The first reminds me of a slavic language, while the second leaves me with the impression of Spanish. It's all good.


Last edited by inkoreaforgood on Mon May 29, 2006 4:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vote for number 2 because it's so close to Spanish that I can understand it easily.

It would take a bit of study for me to get a handle on number 1, but number 2 I can pretty much read it as is.
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Demophobe



Joined: 17 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't take yourselves so seriously boys. Laughing
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted for the second one--it seemed easier to follow. Plus it looks nicer. Wink
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Which language do you prefer? Reply with quote

mithridates wrote:
Here's what the language looks like:

Quote:
Indo-Europan es la plu grande familia de linguas en la mundo, con 150 linguas e sirca tre mil milion parlores. Linguas inclui Hindi e Urdu (400 milion), Bangla (200 milion), Espaniol (300 milion), Portuges (200 milion), Franses (100 milion), Deutx (100 milion), Rusce (300 milion), e Engles (400 milion). Engles es la plu poplal lingua du e es parlada par sirca un mil milion popla en la mundo.

La loca orijinal ia es la area entre la rios Danubio e Volga. Entre 3000 e 2000 aec, la lingua proto-indo-europan ia estende a Europa e Anatolia a la ueste, a Persia e India a la sude, e a Xina ueste a la este. Miles anios plu tarde, en la eda de colonialisme, linguas como Espaniol, Portuges, Franses, Engles, e Rusce estende a la Americas, Australia, la isolas de la mar Pasifica, partes de Africa, e a Sibir.

Definetey #2.. I can practicially read it right now.

Indo-European is the largest family of languages in the world, with 150 languages and near 3,000,000,000 speakers. The languages include Hindi and Urdo (etc.).
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thebum



Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Location: North Korea

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Which language do you prefer? Reply with quote

Tiger Beer wrote:
mithridates wrote:
Here's what the language looks like:

Quote:
Indo-Europan es la plu grande familia de linguas en la mundo, con 150 linguas e sirca tre mil milion parlores. Linguas inclui Hindi e Urdu (400 milion), Bangla (200 milion), Espaniol (300 milion), Portuges (200 milion), Franses (100 milion), Deutx (100 milion), Rusce (300 milion), e Engles (400 milion). Engles es la plu poplal lingua du e es parlada par sirca un mil milion popla en la mundo.

La loca orijinal ia es la area entre la rios Danubio e Volga. Entre 3000 e 2000 aec, la lingua proto-indo-europan ia estende a Europa e Anatolia a la ueste, a Persia e India a la sude, e a Xina ueste a la este. Miles anios plu tarde, en la eda de colonialisme, linguas como Espaniol, Portuges, Franses, Engles, e Rusce estende a la Americas, Australia, la isolas de la mar Pasifica, partes de Africa, e a Sibir.

Definetey #2.. I can practicially read it right now.

Indo-European is the largest family of languages in the world, with 150 languages and near 3,000,000,000 speakers. The languages include Hindi and Urdo (etc.).


nope, it's the 4th (or third) largest, based on info from Ethnologue:
1. Niger-Congo (1514 languages)
2. Austronesian (1268 languages)
3. Trans-New Guinea (564 languages) (validity disputed)
4. Indo-European (449 languages)
5. Sino-Tibetan (403 languages)
6. Afro-Asiatic (375 languages)
7. Nilo-Saharan (204 languages)
8. Pama-Nyungan (178 languages)
9. Oto-Manguean (174 languages) (number disputed; Lyle Campbell includes only 27)
10. Austro-Asiatic (169 languages)
11. Sepik-Ramu (100 languages) (validity disputed)
12. Tai-Kadai (76 languages)
13. Tupi (76 languages)
14. Dravidian (73 languages)
15. Mayan (69 languages)
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flotsam



Joined: 28 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Which language do you prefer? Reply with quote

thebum wrote:


nope, it's the 4th (or third) largest, based on info from Ethnologue:
1. Niger-Congo (1514 languages)
2. Austronesian (1268 languages)
3. Trans-New Guinea (564 languages) (validity disputed)
4. Indo-European (449 languages)
5. Sino-Tibetan (403 languages)


Let's not get too clever--how many people speak those Niger-Congo and Austronesian languages?

I've formally studied German, French, Arabic, Korean, Hindi and Urdu and as Mr. Mith knows I am trying to work on Esperanto now, but I have to say that I find LFN much easier to read than either Ido or Esperanto. I am not sure if it is my linguistic background nor am I sure if it heavily favors those who have been exposed to Romance and Germanic languages but there are certain elements of Ido and Esperanto, perhaps Slavic?, that give me pause and make me read certain words twice before I figure out what they are getting at (like the plurals in Esperanto) whereas LFN seemed almost as easy as reading French to me.
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MorgolKing



Joined: 18 May 2006

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted Ido purely on the merits that it looks more artificial and unlike other known languages--therefore cooler.
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thebum



Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Location: North Korea

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Which language do you prefer? Reply with quote

Tiger Beer wrote:

Indo-European is the largest family of languages in the world, with 150 languages and near 3,000,000,000 speakers. The languages include Hindi and Urdo (etc.).


flotsam wrote:

Let's not get too clever--how many people speak those Niger-Congo and Austronesian languages?


Does it matter? I was simply addressing the size of a language family based on how many languages it has - which is different than the number of speakers of a language/language family. Hope that wasn't too clever for you.
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Woland



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta say, Mith, number two is easier, but that may be from my knowing Spanish, plus a bit of Fench and Italian. It also has the advantage of a cute instructor in the comic book heroine.

The creator of Esperanto was Polish, right, Mith? That may explain some of the Slavic influence that Flotsam is seeing. I don't notice it that much; it seems overwhelmed by Romance.

I'm waiting for someone to create an artificial language that uses tones. After all, I've heard somewhere that most of the world's languages are tone or pitch accent languages. It's only chance that all the Indo-European languages (the sources of all these artificial tongues) except two that I know of miss that boat.


Last edited by Woland on Mon May 29, 2006 5:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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flotsam



Joined: 28 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Which language do you prefer? Reply with quote

thebum wrote:


Does it matter? I was simply addressing the size of a language family based on how many languages it has - which is different than the number of speakers of a language/language family. Hope that wasn't too clever for you.


It was though. It really was. And in response to your response I would just like to say:



















































































메롱!
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