Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Derrek]

I'm seeing A LOT of 1.9 million won jobs out there these days. More than normal.

That, and jobs that will pay 2.2 to people who have top credentials, but that's where they seem to cut off.

A lot of them seem to be the public school jobs, too. Do you think this was the plan? Flood the market with jobs, bring in lots of teachers, then lower salaries regardless of whether they can find teachers for the jobs? Then, perhaps, cut the jobs out ofter the hagwon follow suit and lower salaries? I have heard that the GEPIK think is a 2 year deal per school... wonder if they're keeping to that or not.

[Homer]

I do not think the industry is organized enough to arrange a national wide salary reduction Derrek.

Also, the 2.2 you mention is for people with some experience and/or better credentials.

There is also the point that some of the top end jobs are not advertised very widely. I know my present school pays more then 2.4 for a teacher with a bit of experience and proper references and credentials but they advertise very selectively when they have openings or, like many companies, ask their staff if they know anyone before putting out a add.

[Derrek]

The orchestrated push would come via the gov't paid jobs for public schools. Flooding the market with a certain salary number could make a lot of Koreans at hagwons think, "Oh, the gov't only offers teachers 1.9, so I should only offer that..."

[SuperHero]

[stalinsdad]

I would suggest anyone staying longer than a year is a freaky waygook.

[djbackdoor]

[stumptown]

[fusionbarnone]

If Korean schools including Hakwons think "foreigners"/native English speakers-cum-graduates are desperate to work in their country, then they've believed their nationalistic hype quite possibly to their own detriment. This is a time in which Koreans should be acting like professionals.

Where the K-govt. and Ed. ministry had been internationally humiliated with their incredibly poor showing in the English proficiency scores, one would think securing 'qualified" personnel would be a priority. Although apparently this seems to be the case (checking of qualifications, funds allocated to raising English proficiency levels), the attitude still appears to be cheap-cheap amongst govt. reps which demonstrates a poor view of ESL professionals as incomparable to themselves as educators. This(if it persists) attitude is going to gnaw them on their K- derriers should potential ESLers(qualified or appropriately credentialed) opt for less murky waters.

Perhaps this "foreigner disposability" attitude arose from the unchecked numbers of waygookins(backpackers, etc.; as it seems every K-educator I've talked to has a "story") who were able to populate hokwons before immigration requirement tightening. Native English speakers were once easily found, employed, shafted, and replaced, with hokwans leading the charge. Now, "informed" English teachers(K-teachers in charge) expect the status que (their jobs/modus operandi) to remain unchanged whilst perhaps attempting to incorporating tactics from the good ol' hakwons themselves. This can be seen on many university campus "hakwons"too, where new hires sign thinking that they have become "professors", only to discover that they're working in a uni-style hakwon with all the drama of the H-word .

In Korea, the golden days of replaceable teachers may be ending, (possibly helped along by emotional anti-teacher documentaries). Many western university educators had foreseen this change many years prior and were not surprised with the current turn of events presently unfolding. Interestingly enough, none of them ever recommended that their graduate students should ever think about working in the land of the morning calm, with all being dead set against it. It was almost as if (from what was described to me) Korea represented everything that embodied the worst place in the world for a university trained language/education graduate student to consider teaching, let alone, begin.

If Korea fared so terribly/disgracefully in it's English proficiency, an accusatory eye should be cast at those privately-owned-institutions-of-learning whose prime directive is solely and primarily for profit to which education is an after-thought and where little interest is paid toward actual student-English language procurement. The strategy seemed to rely on a particular racial type in which highly preferred applicants would preferably be 20ish, blond, caucasion, with good looks a definate-plus, were/are the upper-echelon of highly-desirables, used primarily as promotional models. As long as parents had the satisfaction and snob value of a "real" native speaker, "schools" became profitable and parents continued to think their off-springs educational needs were being fulfilled. The blame should be foisted not on the teachers(most would have had/have a degree) but on an industry which provided no educational/quality oversight.

There have been many credentialed educators who were stymied by hakwon directors who preferred dumbed down(K-esl pap English resources). Unable to make informed contributions(as an attempt at incorporating any semblance of a real results proven curriculum, would make lessons difficult and uninteresting for students). In rare cases where something had been allowed to run and trial (until the teachers departure) were quickly disgarded once the new hire was sworn in. In regards to recent implemented English initiatives, this is the govts chance to allow trained foreign educators to contribute.

In developing and creating these "new" positions created within the public education system, the funding govt. should set aside consideration to include the abysmal international reputation their hokwons have helped make teaching/being in Korea infamous, casting an unflattering reflection on Koreans and ethics generally. Koreans could be accused of practising ostrich head in the sand techniques if they believe their business practice/s (via hakwons) didn't give international observers(not only ESL professionals) an impression of rampant disregrad or lack of any ethical code/s of condust in a professional context per-se. Setting similar practices(common to hakwons)within the Korean public education system which is normally seen as a neutral bastian(non-profit-driven) of decorum and conduct, will make westerners/foreigners wonder even more about the state of ethics within all levels of Korean society. Thus, these initives could also serve as national damage control for the long term and future business relationships in the ROK.

Since the bar was raised with E2 requirements demanding sealed transcripts sent in a timely manner, in order to prove an applicant's eligibility to apply, this may impact teacher availability. Established teachers without required credentials may soon leave a dent in the available numbers of teachers eventually. And will also make it difficult for present job holders(satisfy immigration requirements)) to legally engage a new contract even, with a letter of release, as one OP (Rawiri) discovered. This is not an express priority of universities and therefore can happen to anyone "between jobs" in Korea with these new standards. The future renewal of contract experiences could become very interesting with there being some very long spells between jobs so, current teachers had better save for their rainy day.

All in all, I think Korean educators are forgetting that their historical nemesis (Japan) is also applying for these limited resources of qualified educators(they pay them well, seem to respect their input, and don't seem to have the same negative connotations cast on them by foreigners as their K-nieghbors have). Show no respect for English teaching professionals now, Korea will likely lose out to other countries(willing to remunerate proven talent) in the English learning competition.

Wouldn't it be intersting to speculate as to how much the, "freaky waygooks," may have actually contributed to the 110th placement. Would the result have been much worse, without them, in the first place?

[Wrench]

Actualy we are not ESL teachers. We are EFL teachers.

[mindmetoo]

[Barking Mad Lord Snapcase]

[Ya-ta Boy]

I have no inside knowledge of a plot to lower salaries. I doubt too many on this board do. I'm not even convinced salaries are going down.

However, it is plausible. Salaries shot up in '98 during the low point of the won/dollar exchange rate. It is conceivable that as the won rises in value there may be a move to lower salaries in a rough equivalency.

[hellofaniceguy]

Orchestrated push to lower salaries?
Even if it was...it is the fault of foreign teachers who would agree to low salaries! Can't say that any more easier.
Stop signing for low wages, stop working for shady hakwon owners...schools will have no choice but to improve.
Immigration needs to stop issuing Visa's to schools where teacher's have been screwed over.
Why is that so difficult immigration? Your system is computerized...type in the school name and bingo...up pops the names of past teacher's! If the school has fired teacher's before the year is up.....issue no Visa until the matter is resloved. But oh...I realize that would be making you immigration folks work...and we can't have that now can we!
Point is...low salaries...and who cares if housing and airfare is included which ups the salary....housing sucks in most cases! Airfare? What...a million Won? That's a benefit? Buy your own ticket!
Hakwon with 150 students.....2 KT' and 1 FT...equals to almost 20 million Won a month! 20 million times 12 months is...240 million Won a year...so...between 200 million Won and year and 240 million Won a year...and the school pays you 30 million Won with housing/airfare?!?!?!
And the school most times does not lose out on housing...it is a deposit which the school gets back anyway.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

Excellent points, fusionbarone.

I can think of a few reasons for the low salaries being offered by some public schools, but it probably has a lot to do with perceived market demand regarding teaching preferences. I would much prefer to work at a public school for 1.9 than a hogwan for 2.1. I suspect that public schools get far more applicants. Just look at how many recruiters try to sneak the words 'public school' into their ads. During my recent job search I couldn't believe how many offers teaching kiddie hogwan I was swamped with, even though I specified that I was not going to accept a job at a children's hogwan.

I don't think the future looks that bright for hogwans in a number of respects, and I don't think that driving salaries down will help them much at all.

[Yu_Bum_suk]