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How do yoochiboos learn to read Korean?

 
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tomato



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:50 am    Post subject: How do yoochiboos learn to read Korean? Reply with quote

I have wondered how so many Korean preschoolers learn to read before they start first grade.
You may say, "They teach reading in preschool."
That may be part of it, but even the kids in English preschools learn to read Korean.

Maybe the efficiency of the Korean language has something to do with it. It is probably easy for preschoolers to learn that each little square box represents a syllable.

Today, a cute little yoochiboo sat in front of me in the library. She had one of those children's books which had one picture for each word and one word for each picture. She looked at the word for "toothbrush," pointed to the first syllable, said, "ĩ," pointed to the second syllable, and said, "��." She looked at the word for "toothpaste," pointed to the first syllable, said, "ġ," pointed to the second syllable, and said, "��."

I wondered whether she was really reading the words or whether she was responding to the pictures with the knowledge that one square equals one syllable.

Even if she was only matching squares with syllables, I am sure that it will be a feasible step to learn to tell those syllables apart. If English syllables were similarly encapsuled, English-speaking preschoolers could probably do as well.

A drum roll and a fanfare for Sejong!
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dg611



Joined: 11 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Today, a cute little yoochiboo sat in front of me in the library. She had one of those children's books which had one picture for each word and one word for each picture. She looked at the word for "toothbrush," pointed to the first syllable, said, "ĩ," pointed to the second syllable, and said, "��." She looked at the word for "toothpaste," pointed to the first syllable, said, "ġ," pointed to the second syllable, and said, "��."

I wondered whether she was really reading the words or whether she was responding to the pictures with the knowledge that one square equals one syllable.


It would be a combination of both...these days...kids are learning whole character method, which means that they are taught the combinations that make what we might call a 'syllable.' Of course, seeing the visual stimuli they know what the object is and are responding to that as much as the hangeul...a good way to find out would be to write the characters on a piece of paper without a picture and see how they do....that would be a true test of reading ability. I venture a guess that the simpler characters that containe only 2 �� but the 3 and 4 �� syllables like 칮 would likely get a blank stare.....my daughter is 3 years old and she knows about 20 combinations but all of them are double or easy triple 'ja' characters.
An interesting thing I learned about Hangeul....the scholars of Sejong did not intend this method...hangeul was intended to be learned phonetically rather than by a 'whole syllable' method...similar to the way we learn english by 'phonics'...learning each sound of each letter and combining it with other sounds to make words. More interestingly (or ironic depending on your view), 'whole word' reading instruction has largely been discredited in the US in favor of phonics and combined methods....seems that students who learn by 'whole word' are much poorer spellers Smile.

However, i agree that hangeul is an amazing thing and korean kids seem to pick it up with amazing speed compared to English....but then again...it is rules based and the rules are almost never broken...English is comparitively, a pronunciation and spelling morass of dispair.
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Scary Gary



Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Guro Digital Complex Station

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you guys think about hangeul? It doesn't take very long to learn, so I guess it has its advantages. Sometimes i'm suspicious that it is kind of boring and limited though, but maybe I'm just a biased anglophone.

I get tired of my adult students telling me that Korean is the BEST language in the world. But I don't get tired of asking them to name any internationally famous Korean literature, poetry, etc.

Thoughts?
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joe_doufu



Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scary Gary wrote:
What do you guys think about hangeul? It doesn't take very long to learn, so I guess it has its advantages. Sometimes i'm suspicious that it is kind of boring and limited though, but maybe I'm just a biased anglophone.


I think English has the largest vocabulary of any language, so there are a million ways to describe things, which makes English writing and poetry realtively colorful. So, you could say Korean is boring and limited for that reason. But I wouldn't. I'd say Korean is boring and limited because you're limited to only a few boring people you can speak to with it.
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I met a kindergartener once who could read words in English well, but had trouble pronouncing it. He could speak Korean well and complain to his mother, but couldn't read a single character.
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Scott in HK



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: now in Incheon..haven't changed my name yet

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
More interestingly (or ironic depending on your view), 'whole word' reading instruction has largely been discredited in the US in favor of phonics and combined methods....seems that students who learn by 'whole word' are much poorer spellers


This is not true. Whole language instruction (any one who refers to it as 'whole word' doesn't understand the method very well) has not been discredited and is still the dominate way of teaching reading. Whole language instruction includes phoneme awareness and so when done properly is an effective method for teaching. Pure phonics on the other hand is very poor way to teach reading. Although it is true that a combination approach is being utilized...the combination approach is still rooted in the idea of approaching reading as a whole rather than in small parts (the pure phonics approach).

The problem is that whole language instruction was often not prorperly understood or presented well to teachers.
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excitinghead



Joined: 18 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scary Gary wrote:
What do you guys think about hangeul? It doesn't take very long to learn, so I guess it has its advantages. Sometimes i'm suspicious that it is kind of boring and limited though, but maybe I'm just a biased anglophone.

I get tired of my adult students telling me that Korean is the BEST language in the world. But I don't get tired of asking them to name any internationally famous Korean literature, poetry, etc.

Thoughts?


I agree that Koreans saying that Hangul is the best and the "most scientific" language in the world gets a bit wearisome, but in this case they have a point (although thinking all foreigners have heard of it and agree IS maybe a bit naive). Please forgive me if this just sounds like a repeat of the Lonely Planet Korean culture section, but the printing press was actually invented in Korea in the 1200s well before...er...Gutenburg?? reinvented it in Europe, but because Hanja was used in Korea then it didn't take off because you needed thousands of metal keys for all the characters and it took forever just to print one page. King Sejong compressing all that down into 20 or 30 characters or whatever 2 centuries later WAS a real acheivement, which is why UNESCO's annual literacy prize is named after him.

Pity no-one in Korea tried making books again afterwards, but only the elite could read and write and hated available-to-all Hangul anyway, so as far as I know, in the end most ordinary Koreans didn't use it until the second half of the the 19th Century?

After giving up (again) attempting to learn Hanja, I thank my lucky stars that I ended up in Korea instead of Taiwan or Japan because unlike those languages it took me 5 hours spread over 5 days to learn to read and write Hangul rather than the 5 years or so it would take for those. Also, because of Korean's similarities to both, it's one of the best Asian languages to start off with I think (a friend tells me Vietnamese is romanised so maybe that's good too). I admit that there are still more and much better resources for learning those than Korean though.

Edit: Sorry, maybe got a bit off topic in hindsight!
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Sleepy in Seoul



Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, hangeul is easy to learn - although I can only speak with experience about learning it as an adult - but English is not that difficult either. I didn't go to kindergarten, my mother preferring to have my brothers and I at home. By the time I was old enough to start primary school I was not only able to read, but I could write in cursive as well. I don't remember exactly, but it was years before other children my age were taught cursive. Why should children not be able to read and write as early as possible?
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
An interesting thing I learned about Hangeul....the scholars of Sejong did not intend this method...hangeul was intended to be learned phonetically rather than by a 'whole syllable' method...similar to the way we learn english by 'phonics'...learning each sound of each letter and combining it with other sounds to make words. More interestingly (or ironic depending on your view), 'whole word' reading instruction has largely been discredited in the US in favor of phonics and combined methods....seems that students who learn by 'whole word' are much poorer spellers Smile.

However, i agree that hangeul is an amazing thing and korean kids seem to pick it up with amazing speed compared to English....but then again...it is rules based and the rules are almost never broken...English is comparitively, a pronunciation and spelling morass of dispair.


All true! Given that I learned to read and pronounce the Korean alphabet in about 4 hours with a tape, a chart and some flash cards I made probably says a lot about it being accessible. Learning the language, on the other hand...
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thekingofdisco



Joined: 29 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
it's one of the best Asian languages to start off with I think (a friend tells me Vietnamese is romanised so maybe that's good too).


Vietnamese....!! Don't even go there, if you want a simple written language, or spoken for that matter! My guess is they will have a full script/writing change again within the next 20 years.

Very tough one to master, I reckon. Their writen language history is fascinating though.

By the way, people all too easily put spoken language together with written language. Yet one must remember that these are two very different things.


Last edited by thekingofdisco on Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tzechuk



Joined: 20 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My husband has never said that Hangul is the best language, but he has said that it is the most scientific... which I agree. Having said that though, I also find Hangul a little stupid because the words themselves have no meaning, they are just sounds. 80% of Korean nouns are from Chinese, so the hangul characters are merely sounds of these Chinese words.

For example, the word *won* can mean dollar, circle, finish, garden etc.

I asked my husband how he knows what the hangul characters represent and he said they know through context. This is why learning to understand Korean, especially literature, difficult.
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tzechuk wrote:
...I also find Hangul a little stupid because the words themselves have no meaning, they are just sounds. 80% of Korean nouns are from Chinese, so the hangul characters are merely sounds of these Chinese words.

For example, the word *won* can mean dollar, circle, finish, garden etc.


But, this is true of every language. Sound trumps text.


tzechuk wrote:
I asked my husband how he knows what the hangul characters represent and he said they know through context. This is why learning to understand Korean, especially literature, difficult.


Again, the same in every language. This is the entire point of communicative method.
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tzechuk



Joined: 20 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EFLtrainer, in English, you KNOW what each word means. Each word has a meaning - ok, may be several, but you know what the word means even on its own. Like the word for the unit of money - dollars. You know it is money. Can you say the same thing for *won*?

This is not true for Korean. With Korean, one individual word could just about mean ANYTHING. Like the example I gave above, the word *won* could mean dollar, round, finish, institute etc.. etc.. You won't know which Chinese character it is referring to unless it is contextualised. This is the reason why, hard as they try, they still have to put Chinese characters in paratheses in writing (look at Korean newspapers), so that people know what they really are trying to say.
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

excitinghead wrote:

Please forgive me if this just sounds like a repeat of the Lonely Planet Korean culture section, but the printing press was actually invented in Korea in the 1200s well before...er...Gutenburg?? reinvented it in Europe, but because Hanja was used in Korea then it didn't take off because you needed thousands of metal keys for all the characters and it took forever just to print one page. King Sejong compressing all that down into 20 or 30 characters or whatever 2 centuries later WAS a real acheivement, which is why UNESCO's annual literacy prize is named after him.

Pity no-one in Korea tried making books again afterwards, but only the elite could read and write and hated available-to-all Hangul anyway, so as far as I know, in the end most ordinary Koreans didn't use it until the second half of the the 19th Century?



Moving type still wasn't particularly practical with hangeul either, because each different kind of possible syllable block still required its own metal key.
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